Bout time we catch up to the rest of the civilized world.

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Every year that the system is being built, as many as 100,000 construction-related jobs will be created, as will up to 450,000 permanent new jobs over the next 25 years

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Bout time we catch up to the rest of the civilized world.

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Every year that the system is being built, as many as 100,000 construction-related jobs will be created, as will up to 450,000 permanent new jobs over the next 25 years

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Every year that the system is being built, as many as 100,000 construction-related jobs will be created, as will up to 450,000 permanent new jobs over the next 25 years

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Bout time we catch up to the rest of the civilized world.

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Every year that the system is being built, as many as 100,000 construction-related jobs will be created, as will up to 450,000 permanent new jobs over the next 25 years

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Bout time we catch up to the rest of the civilized world.

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Every year that the system is being built, as many as 100,000 construction-related jobs will be created, as will up to 450,000 permanent new jobs over the next 25 years

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It will be expensive, no doubt, but overall I think that this is a good thing. Whatever happens in the next 25 years around here, there will be a strong user demand for a train that can get someone from LA to the Bay Area in a couple of hours. The biggest thing wrong with this is that they didn't do it 20 years ago.

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They are far too comfortable and economical to avoid forever.

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Bout time we catch up to the rest of the civilized world.

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Every year that the system is being built, as many as 100,000 construction-related jobs will be created, as will up to 450,000 permanent new jobs over the next 25 years

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It will be expensive, no doubt, but overall I think that this is a good thing. Whatever happens in the next 25 years around here, there will be a strong user demand for a train that can get someone from LA to the Bay Area in a couple of hours. The biggest thing wrong with this is that they didn't do it 20 years ago.

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There's only one problem.

Who is going to pay to ride the thing?

When you discover that like Amtrak now, it doesn't pay for itself- then what?

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They are far too comfortable and economical to avoid forever.

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....and you don't find it odd that nobody will pony up their own money to build this shite?

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They are far too comfortable and economical to avoid forever.

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....and you don't find it odd that nobody will pony up their own money to build this shite?

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Pride and ignorance, my Friend (as per previous post +bitchen car culture).

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Holy sh*t
A post about a stupid f*cking a$$ train that cost billions and will rot and fall apart in socal farmland before it's finished?
nobody said anything about the Simpsons Monorail episode?
thatz just f*cking crazy, man!
Monorail!
cowabunga,
rg

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The mention of the Simpsons Monorail just has made me want to apologize to everything I just said in the Pinniped thread.

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Holy sh*t
A post about a stupid f*cking a$$ train that cost billions and will rot and fall apart in socal farmland before it's finished?
nobody said anything about the Simpsons Monorail episode?
thatz just f*cking crazy, man!
Monorail!
cowabunga,
rg

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The mention of the Simpsons Monorail just has made me want to apologize to everything I just said in the Pinniped thread.

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I love you too, pluto

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They are far too comfortable and economical to avoid forever.

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....and you don't find it odd that nobody will pony up their own money to build this shite?

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I find it odd that nobody ponied up their own money to fund a gazzilion dollar war and maintain a bloated world-police military complex. Yet somebody paid for it.

At least with trains we actually get some benefit in return as opposed to absolutely fck all.

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They are far too comfortable and economical to avoid forever.

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....and you don't find it odd that nobody will pony up their own money to build this shite?

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you should know better than that.
everybody charges the taxpayer. even walmart gets paid by the taxpayer to build a store because it will "create jobs". corporate welfare...c'mon, you know that..you work for haliburton dont you?

the austin taxpayer even got charged for building an F1 track here. And the owner happens to be so rich, even his teenage daughter owns a billion dollar home.

mmmmm...welfare....

btw, i just checked amtrak. 360 dollars from ausin to los angeles, riding coach for three days. in russia, that distance would cost about 70 bucks and it would include a bed. also it would take two days.

i love trains and public transportation...dont' get me wrong..but yeah, doesn't seem like right now is a good time to build something like that. gonna have to wait until the people are so poor they don't even have cars. good luck cali-bros!

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vast majority of CAs don't want this expensive atrocity most of us will never see in our lifetimes yet put the state dearly in debt. It will go on the ballot and get shot down.

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It already got approved by voters once

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vast majority of CAs don't want this expensive atrocity most of us will never see in our lifetimes yet put the state dearly in debt. It will go on the ballot and get shot down.

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It already got approved by voters once

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Bout time we catch up to the rest of the civilized world.

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my neighbor is real smart and he says one day theyll invent flying machines that will take only 1 hr and cost less than a 100 dollars to go that route.

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They should just hold out for a vactrain. Link

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...disseminated...

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...disseminated...

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I think a more accurate word would be 'burned'.

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...disseminated...

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I think a more accurate word would be 'burned'.

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I was thinking squandered but burned works too. Oh well, it's somebody else's money anyway. Worked great for C.P. Huntington and his gang of thieves.

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Let's never build any infrastructure ever.

Infrastructure expansion is only for baby boomers. The rest of us have the privilege of paying their social security and using a 100 year old electricity grid. We need more prisons and less schools to keep the boomers safe from weed criminals and rambunctious youths. Also, public transportation is bad because it harms the private sector.

We should all agree that in 50 years we will look like present day Haiti. Our sooty, brown sky looming over ancient freeways clogged with '90s Hondas and Toyotas next to clapboard houses not subject to any building codes, the way God intended. All the while citizens of Japan and Europe and China and India cruise over us in their hover cars, jeering and laughing.

"Look!" one will say, "their milk supply is nothing but growth hormones and non dairy creamer!"
"Yes, and their cars cannot hover, because there are 'Liberals' who are stupid!"
"Ha! You are right! America's misfortunes are the fault of one half of their two party system!"
"Two parties is the best amount of parties to have since all issues have just two sides!"
"Yes, everyone in the 1st world knows this!"

We'll still have a bigger army though.

Let's put Ogdenville on the map, California!

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Let's never build any infrastructure ever.

Infrastructure expansion is only for baby boomers. The rest of us have the privilege of paying their social security and using a 100 year old electricity grid. We need more prisons and less schools to keep the boomers safe from weed criminals and rambunctious youths. Also, public transportation is bad because it harms the private sector.

We should all agree that in 50 years we will look like present day Haiti. Our sooty, brown sky looming over ancient freeways clogged with '90s Hondas and Toyotas next to clapboard houses not subject to any building codes, the way God intended. All the while citizens of Japan and Europe and China and India cruise over us in their hover cars, jeering and laughing.

"Look!" one will say, "their milk supply is nothing but growth hormones and non dairy creamer!"
"Yes, and their cars cannot hover, because there are 'Liberals' who are stupid!"
"Ha! You are right! America's misfortunes are the fault of one half of their two party system!"
"Two parties is the best amount of parties to have since all issues have just two sides!"
"Yes, everyone in the 1st world knows this!"

We'll still have a bigger army though.

Let's put Ogdenville on the map, California!

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They are far too comfortable and economical to avoid forever.

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....and you don't find it odd that nobody will pony up their own money to build this shite?

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It's probably going to require a lot of eminent domain.

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Whole new economies will likely emerge with the facilitation of the movement of people.

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Try to think of one bold investment from the last century in California which you would consider a waste of money.

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How will a bullet train from LAX to SAC facilitate commerce?

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Where do you think the $68 billion or whatever this thing is going to cost is gonna go? Jerry Brown's pockets?

How about the contractors who win the bid? Who knows maybe Halliburton will be one of them.

How about the thousands that will be employed in this construction? They'll be spending their hard earned money? Yeah I know they'll be pesky union workers. Shucks.

How about the manufacturers that produce the parts and materials that go into this? Those that supply the rebar and cement for structures along the way.

How about the quarries that'll supply the gravel for the bedding of the tracks over hundreds of miles?

How about the electric company that provides the power to these trains?

How about the trucking companies that are hired to bring in all these materials?

How about the fuel companies that will provide the fuel for the heavy equipment used to build this line?

How about the staff that's employed to run this thing once it's up and running?

How about the companies that are doing concessions on these trains and in the stations?

How about the companies that will be profiting off of parking at stations?

How about the guy who opens up a hot dog stand right next to the new station?

I can keep going. Surely we can't count on every penny staying in state or even in country but the majority will. This thing is going to go on for a long time and a lot of money will be spent. But it's not going to just disappear. Yes this thing should ultimately be cost effective but keep in mind it's here to service us not profit off us. There's a lot of things in this world that simply aren't cost effective enough for private investors to tackle. Things where the potential for payback is too far down the line for the liking of most investors. Think about the interstate system. If we didn't have one would you think it'd be a good investment for a private corporation to build one? A project that takes ten plus years, costs billions and brings in nothing? No investor in their right mind would put their money into that. Which is why we have this little thing called government.

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How will a bullet train from LAX to SAC facilitate commerce?

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Where do you think the $68 billion or whatever this thing is going to cost is gonna come from?

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How will a bullet train from LAX to SAC facilitate commerce?

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Where do you think the $68 billion or whatever this thing is going to cost is gonna go? Jerry Brown's pockets?

How about the contractors who win the bid? Who knows maybe Halliburton will be one of them.

How about the thousands that will be employed in this construction? They'll be spending their hard earned money? Yeah I know they'll be pesky union workers. Shucks.

How about the manufacturers that produce the parts and materials that go into this? Those that supply the rebar and cement for structures along the way.

How about the quarries that'll supply the gravel for the bedding of the tracks over hundreds of miles?

How about the electric company that provides the power to these trains?

How about the trucking companies that are hired to bring in all these materials?

How about the fuel companies that will provide the fuel for the heavy equipment used to build this line?

How about the staff that's employed to run this thing once it's up and running?

How about the companies that are doing concessions on these trains and in the stations?

How about the companies that will be profiting off of parking at stations?

How about the guy who opens up a hot dog stand right next to the new station?

I can keep going. Surely we can't count on every penny staying in state or even in country but the majority will. This thing is going to go on for a long time and a lot of money will be spent. But it's not going to just disappear. Yes this thing should ultimately be cost effective but keep in mind it's here to service us not profit off us. There's a lot of things in this world that simply aren't cost effective enough for private investors to tackle. Things where the potential for payback is too far down the line for the liking of most investors. Think about the interstate system. If we didn't have one would you think it'd be a good investment for a private corporation to build one? A project that takes ten plus years, costs billions and brings in nothing? No investor in their right mind would put their money into that. Which is why we have this little thing called government.

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How will a bullet train from LAX to SAC facilitate commerce?

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Where do you think the $68 billion or whatever this thing is going to cost is gonna go? Jerry Brown's pockets?

How about the contractors who win the bid? Who knows maybe Halliburton will be one of them.

How about the thousands that will be employed in this construction? They'll be spending their hard earned money? Yeah I know they'll be pesky union workers. Shucks.

How about the manufacturers that produce the parts and materials that go into this? Those that supply the rebar and cement for structures along the way.

How about the quarries that'll supply the gravel for the bedding of the tracks over hundreds of miles?

How about the electric company that provides the power to these trains?

How about the trucking companies that are hired to bring in all these materials?

How about the fuel companies that will provide the fuel for the heavy equipment used to build this line?

How about the staff that's employed to run this thing once it's up and running?

How about the companies that are doing concessions on these trains and in the stations?

How about the companies that will be profiting off of parking at stations?

How about the guy who opens up a hot dog stand right next to the new station?

I can keep going. Surely we can't count on every penny staying in state or even in country but the majority will. This thing is going to go on for a long time and a lot of money will be spent. But it's not going to just disappear. Yes this thing should ultimately be cost effective but keep in mind it's here to service us not profit off us. There's a lot of things in this world that simply aren't cost effective enough for private investors to tackle. Things where the potential for payback is too far down the line for the liking of most investors. Think about the interstate system. If we didn't have one would you think it'd be a good investment for a private corporation to build one? A project that takes ten plus years, costs billions and brings in nothing? No investor in their right mind would put their money into that. Which is why we have this little thing called government.

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russian trains are plentiful and always packed. the subway system in moscow and st. petersburg makes new york's look like a slow moving sh!thole...well, not hard to do. but it's been in their culture for a long time. most people just don't have cars.

here tho...meh.. people love their cars. austin finally finished their train, after i guess about 10 years. it's only like three cars and they recently put mirror tint on the windows so people can't see how empty it is.

a shame...i'd use it, but i don't live in the 'burbs.

i'd love a train to the coast though. i'd be the worst nightmare...a weekend train warrior!

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Weekend warrior! here we come! you and me Urch, I'll spot us the rental when we get to LaLa.

F*ck Russia...if the USA made schit cars like these, we'd all be on the rail too


Surfers endorsing cattlecars, sheeesh.

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Are the people in my generation going to continue to harbor unfounded ill-will towards Middle Eastern countries like how Boomers feel about Russia and The Greatest Generation feels about Germany and Japan?

Indoctrination is a bitch

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russian trains are plentiful and always packed. the subway system in moscow and st. petersburg makes new york's look like a slow moving sh!thole...well, not hard to do. but it's been in their culture for a long time. most people just don't have cars.

here tho...meh.. people love their cars. austin finally finished their train, after i guess about 10 years. it's only like three cars and they recently put mirror tint on the windows so people can't see how empty it is.

a shame...i'd use it, but i don't live in the 'burbs.

i'd love a train to the coast though. i'd be the worst nightmare...a weekend train warrior!

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Weekend warrior! here we come! you and me Urch, I'll spot us the rental when we get to LaLa.

F*ck Russia...if the USA made schit cars like these, we'd all be on the rail too


Surfers endorsing cattlecars, sheeesh.

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wow. Are you seriously that stupid? or is all that rain seeping into your brain?
my reference to "coast" does not mean l.a. and as for those pics..well, i guess you really are an idiot.

my congratulations, mr. east texas wanna be redneck dumbass. that's a mighty fine argument you brought to the table.

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wow. Are you seriously that stupid? or is all that rain seeping into your brain?
my reference to "coast" does not mean l.a. and as for those pics..well, i guess you really are an idiot.

my congratulations, mr. east texas wanna be redneck dumbass. that's a mighty fine argument you brought to the table.

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What crawled up your azz?
I referenced the lightrail proposed for LA-Las Vegas and San Francisco...hence LaLa as the hub.

PS, I don't live in East Texas.
I currently live in an area that goes back 4 generations for me, hardly a "wannabe-redneck".
And the rain, thank you, is a most welcome blessing to the farmers and ranchers who put the food on your ungrateful table.

I included you in a friendly and comic gesture with pics of cars from the Eastern Bloc. I guess my effort to have some fun with you was a mistake.


Have a nice day...

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I don't get what you're talking about still, although I do feel that the Flyover States pose a bigger threat to my desired way of life than anyone overseas

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How will a bullet train from LAX to SAC facilitate commerce?

---

Where do you think the $68 billion or whatever this thing is going to cost is gonna go? Jerry Brown's pockets?

How about the contractors who win the bid? Who knows maybe Halliburton will be one of them.

How about the thousands that will be employed in this construction? They'll be spending their hard earned money? Yeah I know they'll be pesky union workers. Shucks.

How about the manufacturers that produce the parts and materials that go into this? Those that supply the rebar and cement for structures along the way.

How about the quarries that'll supply the gravel for the bedding of the tracks over hundreds of miles?

How about the electric company that provides the power to these trains?

How about the trucking companies that are hired to bring in all these materials?

How about the fuel companies that will provide the fuel for the heavy equipment used to build this line?

How about the staff that's employed to run this thing once it's up and running?

How about the companies that are doing concessions on these trains and in the stations?

How about the companies that will be profiting off of parking at stations?

How about the guy who opens up a hot dog stand right next to the new station?

I can keep going. Surely we can't count on every penny staying in state or even in country but the majority will. This thing is going to go on for a long time and a lot of money will be spent. But it's not going to just disappear. Yes this thing should ultimately be cost effective but keep in mind it's here to service us not profit off us. There's a lot of things in this world that simply aren't cost effective enough for private investors to tackle. Things where the potential for payback is too far down the line for the liking of most investors. Think about the interstate system. If we didn't have one would you think it'd be a good investment for a private corporation to build one? A project that takes ten plus years, costs billions and brings in nothing? No investor in their right mind would put their money into that. Which is why we have this little thing called government.

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Out of State contractors will win the bids.

China will make everything else.

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I don't get what you're talking about still, although I do feel that the Flyover States pose a bigger threat to my desired way of life than anyone overseas

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Kinda ironic when considering the fact that the urban areas need the support provided by the flyover areas a lot more than the other way around. There's no such thing as a service based economy.

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Its unfounded now

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russian trains are plentiful and always packed. the subway system in moscow and st. petersburg makes new york's look like a slow moving sh!thole...well, not hard to do. but it's been in their culture for a long time. most people just don't have cars.

here tho...meh.. people love their cars. austin finally finished their train, after i guess about 10 years. it's only like three cars and they recently put mirror tint on the windows so people can't see how empty it is.

a shame...i'd use it, but i don't live in the 'burbs.

i'd love a train to the coast though. i'd be the worst nightmare...a weekend train warrior!

---

Weekend warrior! here we come! you and me Urch, I'll spot us the rental when we get to LaLa.

F*ck Russia...if the USA made schit cars like these, we'd all be on the rail too


Surfers endorsing cattlecars, sheeesh.

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wow. Are you seriously that stupid? or is all that rain seeping into your brain?
my reference to "coast" does not mean l.a. and as for those pics..well, i guess you really are an idiot.

my congratulations, mr. east texas wanna be redneck dumbass. that's a mighty fine argument you brought to the table.

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What crawled up your azz?
I referenced the lightrail proposed for LA-Las Vegas and San Francisco...hence LaLa as the hub.

PS, I don't live in East Texas.
I currently live in an area that goes back 4 generations for me, hardly a "wannabe-redneck".
And the rain, thank you, is a most welcome blessing to the farmers and ranchers who put the food on your ungrateful table.

I included you in a friendly and comic gesture with pics of cars from the Eastern Bloc. I guess my effort to have some fun with you was a mistake.


Have a nice day...

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3. In hope of a better economic life and and better climate, flyover state children move to our states, bringing their views which throw off the political, and more importantly, social culture of our state. They also take jobs away from natives and make our already crowded state more crowded.

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3. In hope of a better economic life and and better climate, flyover state children move to our states, bringing their views which throw off the political, and more importantly, social culture of our state. They also take jobs away from natives and make our already crowded state more crowded.

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You have outdown yourself with this one. For realz.

Here's some history for you.

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Its unfounded now

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So, you're a fan of countries that treat their own people like crap? Execute women for adultery. Stone people to death. Allow women to be raped or splashed with acid. Destroy historical artifacts, because they somehow see them as an affront.

Not me.

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3. In hope of a better economic life and and better climate, flyover state children move to our states, bringing their views which throw off the political, and more importantly, social culture of our state. They also take jobs away from natives and make our already crowded state more crowded.

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You have outdown yourself with this one. For realz.

Here's some history for you.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kDDnkQQyzQU?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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How come that argument is OK when applied to foreign immigrants?

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Just when I thought you'd outdone yourself.

I think you're having an MDMA flashback. Find a comfortable place and lay down until it passes.

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Its unfounded now

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So, you're a fan of countries that treat their own people like crap? Execute women for adultery. Stone people to death. Allow women to be raped or splashed with acid. Destroy historical artifacts, because they somehow see them as an affront.

Not me.

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Our country treats its people like crap too. Time to stop illustrating all of the reprehensible things done in other countries while turning a blind eye to our own.

Its time to realize that for every good action done by a human there is something horrifying done by another. There is no such thing as one culture's exceptionalism over another's.

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Oh please...

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Its unfounded now

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So, you're a fan of countries that treat their own people like crap? Execute women for adultery. Stone people to death. Allow women to be raped or splashed with acid. Destroy historical artifacts, because they somehow see them as an affront.

Not me.

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Our country treats its people like crap too. Time to stop illustrating all of the reprehensible things done in other countries while turning a blind eye to our own.

Its time to realize that for every good action done by a human there is something horrifying done by another. There is no such thing as one culture's exceptionalism over another's.

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frvcvs has got nothing to base his supposed ridership counts on this dream train....

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paradoxically, your argument fails the same way.

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frvcvs has got nothing to base his supposed ridership counts on this dream train.

He's basically saying "build it and they will come".

The Train of Dreams. Build it and it will miraculously pay for itself.



Who cares if hardly anyone uses it. It will create some government funded jobs for a few years, and some conductors can oversee some mostly empty cars, for what will probably be a $100+ billion project, if it ever finishes.

And like others have mentioned. The majority of the cost is completely UNFUNDED. There's a $3 billion seed fund from the feds that will need to be paid back once the first piece of rail or spike get driven in the ground. The dems in Sacmo are foaming at the mouth for any $$$$ at this point, and I see them squandered before they even lay one piece of track in the cornfields between Bakersfield and Merced.

Yes, lets build it and enormous ridership will just............appear.

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I'm pretty sure I never made a claim about ridership counts. Did I? I never said enormous ridership will be pounding the pavement to ride this line the day the first train makes it's maiden voyage. We are a nation that's pretty set in our ways it's gonna take some time for anything new like this to catch on. I'm sure all you naysayers will be waiting eagerly a month after this thing starts running to say "Only XXXXXXXXX amount of people are riding this thing. It's a collosal failure, I told you so!!! " But that's expected from a shortsighted fool like you.

We spent almost a trillion dollars in iraq for what exactly? What did we get out of that besides more physical therapists, prosthetic specialists and shrinks employed by the VA? You didn't seem to have a problem with that spending.

Frankly I'd rather spend a hundred billion here employing people and investing in our infrastructure and take that chance. You seem to forget that the gov't isn't a business. It's not supposed to be run like a business. It's here to serve us not profit off of us. As I said earlier look at something like the interstate system. It's something we all use and clearly you think it's the best option. But when it was first proposed as a massive endeavor with a cost of hundreds of billions that took 35yrs to complete your attitude would see it as an investment with no immediate return and you'd certainly poo poo it. That's what gov't gives us and thats why we can't think of gov't like a business and we can't trust businesses to serve us the way the government does.

And for those of you who say we shouldn't look to other nations for influence when it comes to transit Dwight Eisenhower's support for the interstate system stemmed from his appreciation of the german audobahn.

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"fighting, over a train"

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frvcvs has got nothing to base his supposed ridership counts on this dream train....

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paradoxically, your argument fails the same way.

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The majority of the cost is completely UNFUNDED. There's a $3 billion seed fund from the feds that will need to be paid back once the first piece of rail or spike get driven in the ground.

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frvcvs has got nothing to base his supposed ridership counts on this dream train....

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paradoxically, your argument fails the same way.

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If it was faster, significantly cheaper than flying Southwest, I'd say it "may" have it's merits. But, it has neither of those qualities.

A majority of California's population will NEVER use this, and if some do, it will be mostly for the novelty, not the necessity. The local lines may get used some use, but the portion between Palmdale and Merced will be lucky to have 10% capacity. Cost effective? I seriously doubt it.

It might help the SF to Sacmo traveler, but the route is sure a round-about way of doing it, probably only slighter faster than driving.

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frvcvs has got nothing to base his supposed ridership counts on this dream train.

He's basically saying "build it and they will come".

The Train of Dreams. Build it and it will miraculously pay for itself.



Who cares if hardly anyone uses it. It will create some government funded jobs for a few years, and some conductors can oversee some mostly empty cars, for what will probably be a $100+ billion project, if it ever finishes.

And like others have mentioned. The majority of the cost is completely UNFUNDED. There's a $3 billion seed fund from the feds that will need to be paid back once the first piece of rail or spike get driven in the ground. The dems in Sacmo are foaming at the mouth for any $$$$ at this point, and I see them squandered before they even lay one piece of track in the cornfields between Bakersfield and Merced.

Yes, lets build it and enormous ridership will just............appear.

---

I'm pretty sure I never made a claim about ridership counts. Did I? I never said enormous ridership will be pounding the pavement to ride this line the day the first train makes it's maiden voyage. We are a nation that's pretty set in our ways it's gonna take some time for anything new like this to catch on. I'm sure all you naysayers will be waiting eagerly a month after this thing starts running to say "Only XXXXXXXXX amount of people are riding this thing. It's a collosal failure, I told you so!!! " But that's expected from a shortsighted fool like you.

We spent almost a trillion dollars in iraq for what exactly? What did we get out of that besides more physical therapists, prosthetic specialists and shrinks employed by the VA? You didn't seem to have a problem with that spending.

Frankly I'd rather spend a hundred billion here employing people and investing in our infrastructure and take that chance. You seem to forget that the gov't isn't a business. It's not supposed to be run like a business. It's here to serve us not profit off of us. As I said earlier look at something like the interstate system. It's something we all use and clearly you think it's the best option. But when it was first proposed as a massive endeavor with a cost of hundreds of billions that took 35yrs to complete your attitude would see it as an investment with no immediate return and you'd certainly poo poo it. That's what gov't gives us and thats why we can't think of gov't like a business and we can't trust businesses to serve us the way the government does.

And for those of you who say we shouldn't look to other nations for influence when it comes to transit Dwight Eisenhower's support for the interstate system stemmed from his appreciation of the german audobahn.

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frvcvs has got nothing to base his supposed ridership counts on this dream train.

He's basically saying "build it and they will come".

The Train of Dreams. Build it and it will miraculously pay for itself.



Who cares if hardly anyone uses it. It will create some government funded jobs for a few years, and some conductors can oversee some mostly empty cars, for what will probably be a $100+ billion project, if it ever finishes.

And like others have mentioned. The majority of the cost is completely UNFUNDED. There's a $3 billion seed fund from the feds that will need to be paid back once the first piece of rail or spike get driven in the ground. The dems in Sacmo are foaming at the mouth for any $$$$ at this point, and I see them squandered before they even lay one piece of track in the cornfields between Bakersfield and Merced.

Yes, lets build it and enormous ridership will just............appear.

---

I'm pretty sure I never made a claim about ridership counts. Did I? I never said enormous ridership will be pounding the pavement to ride this line the day the first train makes it's maiden voyage. We are a nation that's pretty set in our ways it's gonna take some time for anything new like this to catch on. I'm sure all you naysayers will be waiting eagerly a month after this thing starts running to say "Only XXXXXXXXX amount of people are riding this thing. It's a collosal failure, I told you so!!! " But that's expected from a shortsighted fool like you.

We spent almost a trillion dollars in iraq for what exactly? What did we get out of that besides more physical therapists, prosthetic specialists and shrinks employed by the VA? You didn't seem to have a problem with that spending.

Frankly I'd rather spend a hundred billion here employing people and investing in our infrastructure and take that chance. You seem to forget that the gov't isn't a business. It's not supposed to be run like a business. It's here to serve us not profit off of us. As I said earlier look at something like the interstate system. It's something we all use and clearly you think it's the best option. But when it was first proposed as a massive endeavor with a cost of hundreds of billions that took 35yrs to complete your attitude would see it as an investment with no immediate return and you'd certainly poo poo it. That's what gov't gives us and thats why we can't think of gov't like a business and we can't trust businesses to serve us the way the government does.

And for those of you who say we shouldn't look to other nations for influence when it comes to transit Dwight Eisenhower's support for the interstate system stemmed from his appreciation of the german audobahn.

---

HUGE difference between the Interstate Hwy/FREE-way system and a bullet train between LA and SF/Sacmo in California and the USA.

EVERYONE uses the FREE-way system. Comparitively, very few will use the bullet train between LA and SF. Even after it's been around for 10 years. How full are the current Metro-link and Amtrak trains between LA/SD and LA/SF routes? And those are beautiful scenic routes (for parts of them at least)? They've been around for 30-50 years.

Shaving a hour or 2 at the most from those "slow-train" routes is not enough to beat flying. And like you glossed over, if we need TSA security on these trains, which I highly suspect will be needed, it will not speed up the pre-boarding lags of flying any less.

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I could actually see the utility of an express rail between Sacramento and San Francisco. I can see the utility of an commuter train from Victorville - San Bernardino - Riverside - Corona - Anaheim - Costa Mesa. Those are lines that would get heavily used if they ran on an hourly basis 24/7 with 30-minute intervals during the rush hour periods.

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I agree 100%. This bullet train is a "wanna-be" commuter train. The real needs are to connect the outlying suburbs and ex-urbs (way out there 'burbs) to the local city centers. These should be built with this $3 billion seed fund first. Not the cornfield version between Merced and Bakersfield.

I have a feeling this train is going to be "sent to the cornfield" before the first track ever gets laid.

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frvcvs has got nothing to base his supposed ridership counts on this dream train.

He's basically saying "build it and they will come".

The Train of Dreams. Build it and it will miraculously pay for itself.



Who cares if hardly anyone uses it. It will create some government funded jobs for a few years, and some conductors can oversee some mostly empty cars, for what will probably be a $100+ billion project, if it ever finishes.

And like others have mentioned. The majority of the cost is completely UNFUNDED. There's a $3 billion seed fund from the feds that will need to be paid back once the first piece of rail or spike get driven in the ground. The dems in Sacmo are foaming at the mouth for any $$$$ at this point, and I see them squandered before they even lay one piece of track in the cornfields between Bakersfield and Merced.

Yes, lets build it and enormous ridership will just............appear.

---

I'm pretty sure I never made a claim about ridership counts. Did I? I never said enormous ridership will be pounding the pavement to ride this line the day the first train makes it's maiden voyage. We are a nation that's pretty set in our ways it's gonna take some time for anything new like this to catch on. I'm sure all you naysayers will be waiting eagerly a month after this thing starts running to say "Only XXXXXXXXX amount of people are riding this thing. It's a collosal failure, I told you so!!! " But that's expected from a shortsighted fool like you.

We spent almost a trillion dollars in iraq for what exactly? What did we get out of that besides more physical therapists, prosthetic specialists and shrinks employed by the VA? You didn't seem to have a problem with that spending.

Frankly I'd rather spend a hundred billion here employing people and investing in our infrastructure and take that chance. You seem to forget that the gov't isn't a business. It's not supposed to be run like a business. It's here to serve us not profit off of us. As I said earlier look at something like the interstate system. It's something we all use and clearly you think it's the best option. But when it was first proposed as a massive endeavor with a cost of hundreds of billions that took 35yrs to complete your attitude would see it as an investment with no immediate return and you'd certainly poo poo it. That's what gov't gives us and thats why we can't think of gov't like a business and we can't trust businesses to serve us the way the government does.

And for those of you who say we shouldn't look to other nations for influence when it comes to transit Dwight Eisenhower's support for the interstate system stemmed from his appreciation of the german audobahn.

---

HUGE difference between the Interstate Hwy/FREE-way system and a bullet train between LA and SF/Sacmo in California and the USA.

EVERYONE uses the FREE-way system. Comparitively, very few will use the bullet train between LA and SF. Even after it's been around for 10 years. How full are the current Metro-link and Amtrak trains between LA/SD and LA/SF routes? And those are beautiful scenic routes (for parts of them at least)? They've been around for 30-50 years.

Shaving a hour or 2 at the most from those "slow-train" routes is not enough to beat flying. And like you glossed over, if we need TSA security on these trains, which I highly suspect will be needed, it will not speed up the pre-boarding lags of flying any less.

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And you're still the one making claims that you have yet to support.

Is there TSA screening for Acela and the rest of the rail lines in this country? Why would this be any different? Next.

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FREE-way system

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"In California, the registration tax is calculated by the current value of the vehicle. As a result, older and more inexpensive vehicles will have a low registration fee, whereas newer and more expensive vehicles will have fees in the hundreds of dollars."

nothing's "free"
you pay to drive on that not-free-way.

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FREE-way system

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"In California, the registration tax is calculated by the current value of the vehicle. As a result, older and more inexpensive vehicles will have a low registration fee, whereas newer and more expensive vehicles will have fees in the hundreds of dollars."

nothing's "free"
you pay to drive on that not-free-way.

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You forget that you need to wait on TSA (who you conservetards love to bitch about) screening lines, get wanded, searched, etc.

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I strongly doubt this system will affect car ownership in the state or reduce the amount of taxes already being collected for the highways or significantly affect the use of those highways. It's an entirely new and additional cost from beginning to end.

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i agree. i was only pointing out that a freeway isn't free.

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I strongly doubt this system will affect car ownership in the state or reduce the amount of taxes already being collected for the highways or significantly affect the use of those highways. It's an entirely new and additional cost from beginning to end.

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i agree. i was only pointing out that a freeway isn't free.

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frvcvs has got nothing to base his supposed ridership counts on this dream train.

He's basically saying "build it and they will come".

The Train of Dreams. Build it and it will miraculously pay for itself.



Who cares if hardly anyone uses it. It will create some government funded jobs for a few years, and some conductors can oversee some mostly empty cars, for what will probably be a $100+ billion project, if it ever finishes.

And like others have mentioned. The majority of the cost is completely UNFUNDED. There's a $3 billion seed fund from the feds that will need to be paid back once the first piece of rail or spike get driven in the ground. The dems in Sacmo are foaming at the mouth for any $$$$ at this point, and I see them squandered before they even lay one piece of track in the cornfields between Bakersfield and Merced.

Yes, lets build it and enormous ridership will just............appear.

---

I'm pretty sure I never made a claim about ridership counts. Did I? I never said enormous ridership will be pounding the pavement to ride this line the day the first train makes it's maiden voyage. We are a nation that's pretty set in our ways it's gonna take some time for anything new like this to catch on. I'm sure all you naysayers will be waiting eagerly a month after this thing starts running to say "Only XXXXXXXXX amount of people are riding this thing. It's a collosal failure, I told you so!!! " But that's expected from a shortsighted fool like you.

We spent almost a trillion dollars in iraq for what exactly? What did we get out of that besides more physical therapists, prosthetic specialists and shrinks employed by the VA? You didn't seem to have a problem with that spending.

Frankly I'd rather spend a hundred billion here employing people and investing in our infrastructure and take that chance. You seem to forget that the gov't isn't a business. It's not supposed to be run like a business. It's here to serve us not profit off of us. As I said earlier look at something like the interstate system. It's something we all use and clearly you think it's the best option. But when it was first proposed as a massive endeavor with a cost of hundreds of billions that took 35yrs to complete your attitude would see it as an investment with no immediate return and you'd certainly poo poo it. That's what gov't gives us and thats why we can't think of gov't like a business and we can't trust businesses to serve us the way the government does.

And for those of you who say we shouldn't look to other nations for influence when it comes to transit Dwight Eisenhower's support for the interstate system stemmed from his appreciation of the german audobahn.

---

HUGE difference between the Interstate Hwy/FREE-way system and a bullet train between LA and SF/Sacmo in California and the USA.

EVERYONE uses the FREE-way system. Comparitively, very few will use the bullet train between LA and SF. Even after it's been around for 10 years. How full are the current Metro-link and Amtrak trains between LA/SD and LA/SF routes? And those are beautiful scenic routes (for parts of them at least)? They've been around for 30-50 years.

Shaving a hour or 2 at the most from those "slow-train" routes is not enough to beat flying. And like you glossed over, if we need TSA security on these trains, which I highly suspect will be needed, it will not speed up the pre-boarding lags of flying any less.

---

And you're still the one making claims that you have yet to support.

Is there TSA screening for Acela and the rest of the rail lines in this country? Why would this be any different? Next.

---

You didn't answer my question on existing LA/SD and LA/SF ridership, and how that will be increased substantially?

All it will take is one terrorist threat to a passenger train, and TSA will be all over it. Does the attack in Spain a few years ago ring a bell?

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page 6. It's a train wreck about a train wreck.

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frvcvs has got nothing to base his supposed ridership counts on this dream train.

He's basically saying "build it and they will come".

The Train of Dreams. Build it and it will miraculously pay for itself.



Who cares if hardly anyone uses it. It will create some government funded jobs for a few years, and some conductors can oversee some mostly empty cars, for what will probably be a $100+ billion project, if it ever finishes.

And like others have mentioned. The majority of the cost is completely UNFUNDED. There's a $3 billion seed fund from the feds that will need to be paid back once the first piece of rail or spike get driven in the ground. The dems in Sacmo are foaming at the mouth for any $$$$ at this point, and I see them squandered before they even lay one piece of track in the cornfields between Bakersfield and Merced.

Yes, lets build it and enormous ridership will just............appear.

---

I'm pretty sure I never made a claim about ridership counts. Did I? I never said enormous ridership will be pounding the pavement to ride this line the day the first train makes it's maiden voyage. We are a nation that's pretty set in our ways it's gonna take some time for anything new like this to catch on. I'm sure all you naysayers will be waiting eagerly a month after this thing starts running to say "Only XXXXXXXXX amount of people are riding this thing. It's a collosal failure, I told you so!!! " But that's expected from a shortsighted fool like you.

We spent almost a trillion dollars in iraq for what exactly? What did we get out of that besides more physical therapists, prosthetic specialists and shrinks employed by the VA? You didn't seem to have a problem with that spending.

Frankly I'd rather spend a hundred billion here employing people and investing in our infrastructure and take that chance. You seem to forget that the gov't isn't a business. It's not supposed to be run like a business. It's here to serve us not profit off of us. As I said earlier look at something like the interstate system. It's something we all use and clearly you think it's the best option. But when it was first proposed as a massive endeavor with a cost of hundreds of billions that took 35yrs to complete your attitude would see it as an investment with no immediate return and you'd certainly poo poo it. That's what gov't gives us and thats why we can't think of gov't like a business and we can't trust businesses to serve us the way the government does.

And for those of you who say we shouldn't look to other nations for influence when it comes to transit Dwight Eisenhower's support for the interstate system stemmed from his appreciation of the german audobahn.

---

HUGE difference between the Interstate Hwy/FREE-way system and a bullet train between LA and SF/Sacmo in California and the USA.

EVERYONE uses the FREE-way system. Comparitively, very few will use the bullet train between LA and SF. Even after it's been around for 10 years. How full are the current Metro-link and Amtrak trains between LA/SD and LA/SF routes? And those are beautiful scenic routes (for parts of them at least)? They've been around for 30-50 years.

Shaving a hour or 2 at the most from those "slow-train" routes is not enough to beat flying. And like you glossed over, if we need TSA security on these trains, which I highly suspect will be needed, it will not speed up the pre-boarding lags of flying any less.

---

And you're still the one making claims that you have yet to support.

Is there TSA screening for Acela and the rest of the rail lines in this country? Why would this be any different? Next.

---

You didn't answer my question on existing LA/SD and LA/SF ridership, and how that will be increased substantially?

All it will take is one terrorist threat to a passenger train, and TSA will be all over it. Does the attack in Spain a few years ago ring a bell?

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The attack in spain was in 2004. We've been running trains steadily for 8yrs since then. Where's the TSA? Where's the spanish equivalent of the TSA on the madrid system? Stop pulling poop out of your ass and acknowledge that there's lots of aspects of air travel that are far less than convenient and you're making an unfair comparison when you'll only acknowledge the hour of air time between SFO and LAX.

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page 6. It's a train wreck about a train wreck.

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You have done well Grasshopper. Strong work.

It's Pliny time!

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I still don't think there are enough people making that trip to justify a redundant mode of travel.

Let's be honest here. Which route do you think will rack up more riders on a daily basis:

- LA to Sacramento (15 stops in between)

- Victorville to Costa Mesa (4 stops in between)
- Moreno Valley or Beaumont to the east side of LA's Metro system (4 stops in between)
- Santa Clarita to the north side of La's Metro system


I mean, if you're all about serving the people then doesn't it make sense to try and serve as many people as possible and put the HSR ego on the back burner? I'm pretty sure those EuroHipster systems didn't put their long distance carts before their many local commuter horses, if you know what I mean.

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"fighting, over a train"

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I still don't think there are enough people making that trip to justify a redundant mode of travel.

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Redundant? So what is the future mode of travel in California, a car?

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I still don't think there are enough people making that trip to justify a redundant mode of travel.

Let's be honest here. Which route do you think will rack up more riders on a daily basis:

- LA to Sacramento (15 stops in between)

- Victorville to Costa Mesa (4 stops in between)
- Moreno Valley or Beaumont to the east side of LA's Metro system (4 stops in between)
- Santa Clarita to the north side of La's Metro system


I mean, if you're all about serving the people then doesn't it make sense to try and serve as many people as possible and put the HSR ego on the back burner? I'm pretty sure those EuroHipster systems didn't put their long distance carts before their many local commuter horses, if you know what I mean.

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couple things.

1) you do realize there won't be 15 stops on the express route. An express train will stop in SF, San Jose, LA and SD making it much faster.

2) There's 15 million people in LA, SF & SD.

3) Funding from this endeavor will be dedicated to bolstering local transit. The bill includes $2 billion for local projects. San Francisco won't need much as they have a pretty good system in place. LA & SD could use a lil help.

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I still don't think there are enough people making that trip to justify a redundant mode of travel.

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Redundant? So what is the future mode of travel in California, a car?

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I still don't think there are enough people making that trip to justify a redundant mode of travel.

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Redundant? So what is the future mode of travel in California, a car?

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Well, putting aside the fact that many travelers for that route already prefer to fly, why is the continued use of cars assumed to be a problem? Are you basing that assumption on the idea that cars will always use gasoline or diesel?

BTW, as a point of fact the reason for the military is in support of our foreign policy, which itself is based on our trade-based economy. You know, the one that made us rich in the first place. So yes, there is usually an economic element to our use of the military. That foreign policy effectively extended our golden age past its expiration date so in that respect it did serve us well economically in the past. I think that cost-benefit ratio has reversed and it's time to reorganize, but that doesn't alter the reasons we were using it in the first place.

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And what are we trading for in the region that has been front and center in just about every military conflict we've been involved in over the past 25yrs?

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I still don't think there are enough people making that trip to justify a redundant mode of travel.

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Redundant? So what is the future mode of travel in California, a car?

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Well, putting aside the fact that many travelers for that route already prefer to fly, why is the continued use of cars assumed to be a problem? Are you basing that assumption on the idea that cars will always use gasoline or diesel?

BTW, as a point of fact the reason for the military is in support of our foreign policy, which itself is based on our trade-based economy. You know, the one that made us rich in the first place. So yes, there is usually an economic element to our use of the military. That foreign policy effectively extended our golden age past its expiration date so in that respect it did serve us well economically in the past. I think that cost-benefit ratio has reversed and it's time to reorganize, but that doesn't alter the reasons we were using it in the first place.

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russian trains are plentiful and always packed. the subway system in moscow and st. petersburg makes new york's look like a slow moving sh!thole...well, not hard to do. but it's been in their culture for a long time. most people just don't have cars.

here tho...meh.. people love their cars. austin finally finished their train, after i guess about 10 years. it's only like three cars and they recently put mirror tint on the windows so people can't see how empty it is.

a shame...i'd use it, but i don't live in the 'burbs.

i'd love a train to the coast though. i'd be the worst nightmare...a weekend train warrior!

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Weekend warrior! here we come! you and me Urch, I'll spot us the rental when we get to LaLa.

F*ck Russia...if the USA made schit cars like these, we'd all be on the rail too


Surfers endorsing cattlecars, sheeesh.

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wow. Are you seriously that stupid? or is all that rain seeping into your brain?
my reference to "coast" does not mean l.a. and as for those pics..well, i guess you really are an idiot.

my congratulations, mr. east texas wanna be redneck dumbass. that's a mighty fine argument you brought to the table.

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What crawled up your azz?
I referenced the lightrail proposed for LA-Las Vegas and San Francisco...hence LaLa as the hub.

PS, I don't live in East Texas.
I currently live in an area that goes back 4 generations for me, hardly a "wannabe-redneck".
And the rain, thank you, is a most welcome blessing to the farmers and ranchers who put the food on your ungrateful table.

I included you in a friendly and comic gesture with pics of cars from the Eastern Bloc. I guess my effort to have some fun with you was a mistake.


Have a nice day...

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there is nothing funny about your post at all. it consists of hatred, ignorance and ridicule.

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Here ya go, you crank, I'll get you a matching sippy cup if you want.

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Like I said, our return on investment on these last two aren't going to be very good so that's going to factor into the planning as we go forward.

The other thing to remember is that our military is deployed all over the world. Fighting in a shooting war is only one use of a military. Sailing an aircraft carrier off the coast of Korea can also have economic ramifications with respect to our trading partners in S Korea and other neighboring nations.

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I still don't think there are enough people making that trip to justify a redundant mode of travel.

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Redundant? So what is the future mode of travel in California, a car?

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At least we're not charged AGAIN to use it, like this bullet train will.

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Like I said, our return on investment on these last two aren't going to be very good so that's going to factor into the planning as we go forward.

The other thing to remember is that our military is deployed all over the world. Fighting in a shooting war is only one use of a military. Sailing an aircraft carrier off the coast of Korea can also have economic ramifications with respect to our trading partners in S Korea and other neighboring nations.

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You addressed zero points I raised.

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At least we're not charged AGAIN to use it, like this bullet train will.

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yep, yep...agree. and it would probably be a high fair, as well.

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Where do you think our tax dollars go? Do you really think interstates maintain themselves? Do you think when they need to build additional lanes to accommodate increasing traffic volumes they just sprout up out of the ground? Do you think when a road needs resurfacing after years of use it just fixes itself? Who do you think pays for all of that?

For a point of reference the 405 is currently being widened at a cost of over a billion dollars. Do you think we'll see a return on that investment from commuters getting to work 3min earlier each day when it's finally done?

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no skully, i never thought that at all. vehicle registration is an annual occurance. thus money is accrued for roads...annually.

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What we need is

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please stop thinking about governing like a business investor. This is why people like Meg Whitman and Mitt Romney need to stay the fvck out of government.

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Yes...heaven forbid we break even on our projects, are produced on budget and are useful to the masses .

Please stop thinking about governing like a career politician. This is why people like Jerry Brown and Gray Davis need to stay the fark out of government and California.

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shut up Focker.

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no skully, i never thought that at all. vehicle registration is an annual occurance. thus money is accrued for roads...annually.

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So we do pay for them "again", year in and year out. With vehicle registrations as well as federal, state and local taxes from things like income, sales and fuel. We pay for them constantly.

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yes, i understand. that is why i pointed out to surfdog that a FREEway shouldn't be in all caps, because it's not completely free. but you don't pay a toll to drive the freeway. which is what surfdog was pointing out.

although, i should have pointed out that the ticket to ride the train is covering the vehicle and fuel. thus, you are hiring a driver to take you on the free-rail.

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no skully, i never thought that at all. vehicle registration is an annual occurance. thus money is accrued for roads...annually.

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So we do pay for them "again", year in and year out. With vehicle registrations as well as federal, state and local taxes from things like income, sales and fuel. We pay for them constantly.

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yes, i understand. that is why i pointed out to surfdog that a FREEway shouldn't be in all caps, because it's not completely free. but you don't pay a toll to drive the freeway. which is what surfdog was pointing out.

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Like I said, our return on investment on these last two aren't going to be very good so that's going to factor into the planning as we go forward.

The other thing to remember is that our military is deployed all over the world. Fighting in a shooting war is only one use of a military. Sailing an aircraft carrier off the coast of Korea can also have economic ramifications with respect to our trading partners in S Korea and other neighboring nations.

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You addressed zero points I raised.

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I still don't think there are enough people making that trip to justify a redundant mode of travel.

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Redundant? So what is the future mode of travel in California, a car?

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Well, putting aside the fact that many travelers for that route already prefer to fly, why is the continued use of cars assumed to be a problem? Are you basing that assumption on the idea that cars will always use gasoline or diesel?

BTW, as a point of fact the reason for the military is in support of our foreign policy, which itself is based on our trade-based economy. You know, the one that made us rich in the first place. So yes, there is usually an economic element to our use of the military. That foreign policy effectively extended our golden age past its expiration date so in that respect it did serve us well economically in the past. I think that cost-benefit ratio has reversed and it's time to reorganize, but that doesn't alter the reasons we were using it in the first place.

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I'm not talking about fuel I'm talking about how inifecient car travel is in California and how preposterous is the notion that we can expand the roads forever to follow the traffic growth.
It's unbelievable to me that you think that having a single person per car, sitting in traffic jam for hours is an acceptable mode of travel for you.

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Like I said, our return on investment on these last two aren't going to be very good so that's going to factor into the planning as we go forward.

The other thing to remember is that our military is deployed all over the world. Fighting in a shooting war is only one use of a military. Sailing an aircraft carrier off the coast of Korea can also have economic ramifications with respect to our trading partners in S Korea and other neighboring nations.

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please stop thinking about governing like a business investor. This is why people like Meg Whitman and Mitt Romney need to stay the fvck out of government.

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Like I said, our return on investment on these last two aren't going to be very good so that's going to factor into the planning as we go forward.

The other thing to remember is that our military is deployed all over the world. Fighting in a shooting war is only one use of a military. Sailing an aircraft carrier off the coast of Korea can also have economic ramifications with respect to our trading partners in S Korea and other neighboring nations.

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please stop thinking about governing like a business investor. This is why people like Meg Whitman and Mitt Romney need to stay the fvck out of government.

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Lookit, I know you hate it when those inconvenient numbers come up to cloud your humanitarian wishlists but the fact remains that cost-benefit is not a mode of analysis reserved strictly for business.

I presume you use some sort of cost-benefit analysis to operate your own operating budget every month. I strongly suspect you weigh your options when it comes to buying your groceries or planning your entertainment for the evening or weighing which vendor to buy your weed from or whether you have enough on hand to buy the skinny jeans with the lycra that accentuate your curves so nicely.

Churches and social orgs of all kinds plan their operations primarily based on the limitations of their resources. Surfers plot and scheme on their next board purchase using a variation of a cost-benefit analysis. I daresay that aside from emergency services there are few other endeavors people engage in as inviduals, families or other groups that DON'T involve consideration of costs v benefits.

BTW, both costs and benefits are also measured in terms other than dollars, too.

Just because businesses also do it as a means of survival doesn't make it inherently evil or cruel. Nor are you being cruel when you decide you don't have the cash and can't afford to make that extra purchase. Sure, it would be "nice" to have the asset, but not if you can't afford to buy it.

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200mph, car loadable train between SD and SF would see a lot of use if it's done properly.

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please stop thinking about governing like a business investor. This is why people like Meg Whitman and Mitt Romney need to stay the fvck out of government.

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Yes...heaven forbid we break even on our projects, are produced on budget and are useful to the masses .

Please stop thinking about governing like a career politician. This is why people like Jerry Brown and Gray Davis need to stay the fark out of government and California.

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shut up Focker.

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Wow, a subtle ad hominem attack. Just about what I expected from you. I'd make a "short" joke but it's to obvious.

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200mph, car loadable train between SD and SF would see a lot of use if it's done properly.

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zzzzzzzz....

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Exactly, you can also sleep on it unlike if you drive to SF.


Did I mention that the train goes under the fcking English channel, it's profitable, no stale peanuts and no baggage charges? Oh yeah and it costs way less then a plane ticket (about $50 each way).

GDaddy, you keep skirting your own arguments. First you say that train travel is a "redundant mode of travel" then when challenged you claim that people prefer flying, now you talk about something else. Trains are awesome. Just admit that you don't like progress.

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200mph, car loadable train between SD and SF would see a lot of use if it's done properly.

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zzzzzzzz....

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Exactly, you can also sleep on it unlike if you drive to SF.


Did I mention that the train goes under the fcking English channel, it's profitable, no stale peanuts and no baggage charges? Oh yeah and it costs way less then a plane ticket (about $50 each way).

GDaddy, you keep skirting your own arguments. First you say that train travel is a "redundant mode of travel" then when challenged you claim that people prefer flying, now you talk about something else. Trains are awesome. Just admit that you don't like progress.

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What is a California Redevelopment Agency?

JANUARY 20, 2011 BY MATT FULLER, GRI 3 COMMENTS

Unless you’ve been living under a rock , you may have heard that California has both a major budget deficit and a new governor. One of the proposals to balance the California budget from our new Governor, Jerry Brown, (full disclosure, I voted for him) is to eliminate California Redevelopment Agencies . There have been quite a number of San Francisco projects that have been funded by these agencies, and until I heard about the budget proposal I had really never given much thought to what they are. And why eliminating them would be a good or bad thing. Based on the reading I’ve done so far, I can only surmise that I have a lot more reading to do, but here is a brief summary of what I’ve learned so far.

Background:
California Redevelopment Agencies were first authorized in 1945. The idea is (and was) to fix up blighted, decaying, and forgotten areas, which will in turn raise the value of surrounding property taxes, which will in turn create more tax revenues for everyone.

How California Redevelopment Agencies Work, in a very simple nutshell:

Redevelopment agencies are entities created to make the initial investment to enable redevelopment, and they are allowed to take a portion of future tax increases (created by the increase in taxes due to the increase in value caused by the work) to pay for the initial investments. Its a solution to the classic chicken and egg problem. You believe you’ll make more money in the future if  you invest money today. But you don’t have any money today to invest. So you create the redevelopment agency to issue bonds or other debt instruments, and create a future revenue stream that will provide investors with a level of certainty that their investment will be paid back and they’ll make a little bit of money in the process.

So why is this a California budget issue?

Redev agencies are guaranteed a cut of the future incremental tax increases (take your basline property taxes, the amount that the area currently generates in its blighted condition. Subtract this from the amount of taxes that will be generated when the area is redeveloped and you have your incremental tax increase. Roughly, in a nutshell). And it is that money (the incremental taxes) that Jerry Brown would like to have back, thank you very much, to help balance the budget.

Is this a good idea?

Depends on who is talking. Some feel that these agencies are an inefficient and costly way to achieve development goals, and that there are better ways to accomplish redevelopment in California . Others feel that there is a multiplier effect from the work that has created hundreds of thousands of jobs and additional forms of revenue for the state, and that to eliminate them is a very short sighted and ultimately destructive activity that will come back to haunt California budgets in the future.

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I will continue to maintain that cars still are the most efficient and convienent mode of transportation. I, like many Americans, don't like public transportation because we are on other people's schedule instead of our own.

If the oil companies would let it happen a true alternative to gas would continue to let cars be the best mode of transport. CNG and/or ethanol would be a great alternative until something could be invented that didn't spew CO and CO2 into the atmosphere

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Never gonna happen.
It'll traverse way too much private property. Imagine the cost of the buyouts for the right of way? environmental studies?
The Sierra Club should be schitting themselves.
Rail to where? who's gonna pick you up and lend you their car? Rent one? shoulda driven there in my own car to begin with...
While ya'll are at it, why not propose another dam for more hydro-electricity. That'll go over good too.

Never gonna happen.

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Dude,

This is California.

We don't build dams here, we tear down the ones we already have. Duh...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/11/hetch-hetchy-ballot-measure_n_1665596.html

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You can get faster around town on public transport than you could ever do in a car.

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You can get faster around town on public transport than you could ever do in a car.

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As I said above, same thing in Mexico City. Still apples and oranges. The bottom line is Californians are not gonna give up their cars.

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I will continue to maintain that cars still are the most efficient and convienent mode of transportation. I, like many Americans, don't like public transportation because we are on other people's schedule instead of our own.

If the oil companies would let it happen a true alternative to gas would continue to let cars be the best mode of transport. CNG and/or ethanol would be a great alternative until something could be invented that didn't spew CO and CO2 into the atmosphere

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In many cities, like London, that absolutely not true. You can get faster around town on public transport than you could ever do in a car. You can step out of your house and be on the tube or bus within minutes , wherever you live. How long do you think Southern California can keep expanding it's roads to follow the traffic growth? How about the parking? There's a limit and it will happen. What then?

The problem of course is that America is built around the car, while England was built before the car existed. We need to re-think the concept of suburbia and malls that requires us to drive everywhere.

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You can get faster around town on public transport than you could ever do in a car.

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As I said above, same thing in Mexico City. Still apples and oranges. The bottom line is Californians are not gonna give up their cars.

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Not unless they are forced out of them.

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You can get faster around town on public transport than you could ever do in a car.

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As I said above, same thing in Mexico City. Still apples and oranges. The bottom line is Californians are not gonna give up their cars.

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Not unless they are forced out of them.

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Fixed

We are now talking about how to put the genie back in the bottle. How to make the benefits of owning a car less than the costs.

It's one thing to continue to develop transit systems for a populace that has largely never owned or used cars in their daily lives, and quite another to convert previous car owners into non-users after the fact. It's a huge cultural challenge. I don't think the difficulty can be overstated.

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