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Freedom and the View From Obamaland By Jeffrey Lord Published 7/1/2008 12:08:10 AM
Pull back for a moment from the day-to-day and see the pattern.
Talk radio. Oil. Guns. Global warming. Smoking.
On the surface this is a seemingly unconnected laundry list of issues, their connection one to another tangential at best. Or is it?
In the increasingly disturbing view we are all getting of the messianic world that is Obamaland, these subjects in fact have a chilling commonality.
* Talk Radio: Think back for a moment to that threatening letter sent earlier this year to Rush Limbaugh's business partners at Clear Channel Communications by Senator Harry Reid, the Democrats' Senate leader. It was signed by all Senate Democrats, prominently including Barack Obama. While Limbaugh famously turned the attempt to intimidate him into a hilarious charity bidding war that raised four million dollars for the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation, make no mistake. The idea behind the letter was an attempt by government officials to intimidate a private citizen into silence. To shut down Limbaugh's freedom to run his radio show the way he sees fit. Silencing freedom is also the point with the push by Obama supporters to revive the so-called Fairness Doctrine, a move that would effectively shut down the free-market world of talk radio as Americans by the millions have so enthusiastically come to know it.
* SUVs: Remember this gem a while back from Barack Obama?
"We can't drive our SUVs and, you know, eat as much as we want and keep our homes on, you know, 72 degrees at all times, whether we're living in the desert or we're living in the tundra, and then just expect every other country is going to say OK, you know, you guys go ahead keep on using 25 percent of the world's energy, even though you only account for 3 percent of the population, and we'll be fine. Don't worry about us. That's not leadership."
The point is not subtle. Obama is laying the ground work here for the potential banning of SUVs as well as pushing regulations that will tell all of us at exactly what temperatures we must heat or cool our homes. Over at the website BanSUVs.com, an outpost of the type of thinking that prevails in Obamaland, the goal, as the name of their site proclaims is just that: banning SUVs because they are "endangering peoples lives" and are "high polluting." The Obama point that we should no longer enjoy the freedom to "keep our homes on, you know, 72 degrees at all times, whether we're living in the desert or we're living in the tundra" has already emerged as a proposal in California. In this Obamaland vision the state would mandate that every heating and cooling system in a private dwelling include a "non-removable" FM receiver that would allow the government to decide the temperature inside your home.
* Global Warming: The answer in Obamaland is simple. Not only should there be no further debate ("Let's just say that global warming deniers are now on a par with Holocaust deniers..." wrote Boston Globe columnist Ellen Goodman a while back), the demand is on for a Nuremberg-style trial for oil executives. Applauding the sentiments of climate "scientist" James Hansen, who suggested as much in a recent appearance before Congress, one enthusiastic denizen in the Daily Kos precincts of Obamaland put things more succinctly: "Put the bastards on trial on national television."
Are you seeing the thread here?
If not, there's more of this kind of thing. Also on Obama's list of things he either wants to ban or has considered banning are ammunition magazines, semi-automatic weapons, smoking (to be resolved with a federal ban on smoking in public places) and -- at one now infamous campaign rally -- Muslim women wearing the hijab. The Obama campaign apologized for the latter incident, but the apology only underscores the point. While his staffers may be sensitive to the image of Muslims in the Obama campaign, they either know or intuit that the idea of restricting the freedom of others is, as a rule, perfectly acceptable in Obamaland.
FOLLOW ALONG NOW to a just-released Obama commercial featuring Obama himself. Doubtless un-intentionally it speaks exactly to what lies at the heart of the philosophical heart of Obamaland. Praising himself for spurning a post-Harvard Law School opportunity to work on Wall Street in the heart of free-market capitalism, the candidate boasts of his decision instead to "go to Chicago...helping neighborhoods devastated when steel plants closed." Helping them? Did he go out and raise capital to start a new business that would bring jobs to the neighborhood? Well, no. Job creation through the free market system was not at all what Obama had in mind. What did he have in mind as to how one creates jobs? As Obama himself expressed it in a 1995 interview with the Chicago Reader, Obama wondered if he could "figure out ways to use the political process to create jobs for our communities?"
In other words, when faced with a disagreeable problem (in this case the lack of jobs) the answer for Obama always seems to get back to the manipulation of the political process to achieve the desired result.
Are Obamalanders uncomfortable with the free-market driven success of talk radio? Then they will "figure out ways to use the political process" to shut it down. In the case of talk radio, how else to explain the threatening Reid-Obama letter to Rush Limbaugh's business partner? How else does one explain the attempt to retrieve the "Fairness Doctrine" from the dustbin of history? These are nothing more or less than the "use of the political process" to subvert someone else's freedom. Period.
Are Obamaland followers hostile to oil? Do they hate SUVs? Do they think you have no right to heat or cool your own home beyond what they consider politically correct? Do they think you should pay $5 -- or $6 or $7 or $8 or more -- for gas at the pump to ensure you conform to the Obamaland world-view? Yes, they do think all of this and their Obamaland answer is inevitable. They will "use the political process" to stop drilling off shore in its tracks. So too with stopping the use of oil shale or ANWR or anything else that even hints at allowing average Americans their basic freedom to drive whatever vehicle wherever they damn well please whenever they damn well please. In Obamaland it is not only perfectly acceptable, it is gospel from the secular bible that they must use the political process to stop refineries from being built, to keep nuclear power plants from being built, to keep coal from being burned. Use the political process to forcibly mandate the temperature inside every single American home. As a matter of fact, why not just go all the way and nationalize the oil companies -- this actually being suggested by Obamaland's New York Congressman Maurice Hinchey.
Tired of debating global warming? Use the political process to set up show-trials for oil company executives. Who will be around to object if you have successfully used the process to silence the world of talk radio?
As we learned in one of his last debates with Mrs. Clinton, presented with the economic fact-of-life that cutting the capital gains tax resulted in increased revenue for the government, not, as he was portraying it, a loss, the ringmaster of Obamaland simply shrugged, saying he would raise it anyway because to do anything else was "unfair." The idea of your having the freedom to do with your money as you please -- even when doing so increases the revenues for Washington politicians to spend -- was simply irrelevant to Obama. No, your freedom must pass his "fairness test" -- and if it doesn't, well, too bad. Your income is going to suffer right along with your freedom to listen to talk radio, drive an SUV, debate global warming, eat what you please, heat your house the way you please or -- the latest Supreme Court decision notwithstanding -- own a gun if you please.
Is there a problem in Obamaland with your constitutional right to own a gun? It's an easy-to-solve problem, as state senate candidate Obama proposed way back in 1996 when he filled out a questionnaire endorsing the idea of, you guessed it, just banning your freedom to own handguns. Interestingly, when this questionnaire came to light the Obama camp denied their candidate had done this, which prompted the Politico to come up with an amended copy of the questionnaire plainly showing the candidate's own handwriting. The Obamaland acolytes say their leader favors the use of guns for hunting and target shooting, but on the issue of handguns -- well -- his stiff response to the 5-4 decision of the Court that insists gun ownership is, in fact, a constitutional right suggests that handguns in Obamaland would go the way of talk radio and oil. The first Supreme Court vacancy announcement would have barely made it onto the cable news networks in an Obama Administration before an Obamalander would be named to fill the vacancy on the understanding that at the first opportunity he or she can grandly reverse that 5-4 decision and effectively ban the entire Second Amendment.
SO LET'S SUM UP what America would look like in an age of Obama.
To start there would be no more driving SUVs. No more Rush. For God's sake absolutely no driving your SUV while listening to Rush. No more eating whatever you want. Definitely no keeping your home as warm or as cool as you prefer. No capital gains cuts because they are unfair. Your guns will be banned. And if you have a different opinion on global warming? All those lofty supporters of rights for terrorists are going to strip every oil executive in America of theirs in a heartbeat, live and in living color.
Is anyone paying attention here? Today the targets are talk radio, oil, SUVs, or guns or debates on global warming and so on. But what about tomorrow and the day after that and the day and years after that? What freedoms will next be targeted with that deadliest trademark of an Obamalander -- moral superiority? What do we have when the sole purpose of the government as run by the chilling principles of Obamaland is to "use the political process" to remove freedoms large and small one by one by one?
Someone needs to speak it plainly.
The word is fascism.
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Post Extras:
Badfish
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
Reged: 07/18/02
Posts: 9033
Loc: Tone
Quote: Also on Obama's list of things he either wants to ban or has considered banning are ammunition magazines, semi-automatic weapons, smoking (to be resolved with a federal ban on smoking in public places)
-------------------- ><(((º>
Post Extras:
Knuckledragger
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: San Diego
Quote: Also on Obama's list of things he either wants to ban or has considered banning are ammunition magazines, semi-automatic weapons, smoking (to be resolved with a federal ban on smoking in public places )
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Edited by Knuckledragger (07/01/08 12:09 PM)
Post Extras:
swegin
Gerry Lopez status
Reged: 09/20/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: carolina
I see a lot of logical leaps between what Obama says and the conclusions the author makes.
But more importantly, you have no ***** clue what fascism is. Fascism at its core is collusion between the government and big business. The ideology came about when Socialists came together with Monarchists. These strange bedfellows came together because they both were convinced classical liberalism (which is nothing like your definition of liberalism. classical liberalism is basically free market capitalism) had caused western society to go into a tailspin.
Anyways, the author's fearmongering seems to describe a despot or a tyrant as opposed to a fascist.
Edited by misterhat (07/02/08 11:18 AM)
Post Extras:
Knuckledragger
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: San Diego
Quote: I see a lot of logical leaps between what Obama says and the conclusions the author makes.
But more importantly, you have no ***** clue what fascism is. Fascism at its core is collusion between the government and big business. The ideology came about when Socialists came together with Monarchists. These strange bedfellows came together because they both were convinced classical liberalism (which is nothing like your definition of liberalism. classical liberalism is basically free market capitalism) had caused western society to go into a tailspin.
Anyways, the author's fearmongering seems to describe a despot or tyranny as opposed to a fascist.
A collusion between a socialist government and big business is fascism huh?
To quote George Carlin that sounds like Jumbo Shrimp or Plastic Glass. A popular myth.
Fascism is a secular State worshipping religion ,the anti smoking/SUV yada-yada stuff is the same kind of rallying crap that Italian and German fascists(gasp,Nazi's)were using in 20's and 30's.
Replace the militarism of the Italian and German fascists and the genocidal tendencies of the Hun with pacifism and you get the Democrat party platform.
Obama and his buddies in the Democrat party are Mommy State Fascists.
They're "experts",you and I are stupid and need them to engineer society for our own good.
No thank you.
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Post Extras:
GetShacked
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 2644
Quote: I see a lot of logical leaps between what Obama says and the conclusions the author makes.
But more importantly, you have no ***** clue what fascism is. Fascism at its core is collusion between the government and big business. The ideology came about when Socialists came together with Monarchists. These strange bedfellows came together because they both were convinced classical liberalism (which is nothing like your definition of liberalism. classical liberalism is basically free market capitalism) had caused western society to go into a tailspin.
Anyways, the author's fearmongering seems to describe a despot or tyranny as opposed to a fascist.
A collusion between a socialist government and big business is fascism huh?
To quote George Carlin that sounds like Jumbo Shrimp or Plastic Glass. A popular myth.
Fascism is a secular State worshipping religion ,the anti smoking/SUV yada-yada stuff is the same kind of rallying crap that Italian and German fascists(gasp,Nazi's)were using in 20's and 30's.
Replace the militarism of the Italian and German fascists and the genocidal tendencies of the Hun with pacifism and you get the Democrat party platform.
Obama and his buddies in the Democrat party are Mommy State Fascists.
They're "experts",you and I are stupid and need them to engineer society for our own good.
No thank you.
You have no business quoting George Carlin...I think its abundantly clear what side of this argument he'd be on.
Post Extras:
Knuckledragger
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: San Diego
Quote: I see a lot of logical leaps between what Obama says and the conclusions the author makes.
But more importantly, you have no ***** clue what fascism is. Fascism at its core is collusion between the government and big business. The ideology came about when Socialists came together with Monarchists. These strange bedfellows came together because they both were convinced classical liberalism (which is nothing like your definition of liberalism. classical liberalism is basically free market capitalism) had caused western society to go into a tailspin.
Anyways, the author's fearmongering seems to describe a despot or tyranny as opposed to a fascist.
A collusion between a socialist government and big business is fascism huh?
To quote George Carlin that sounds like Jumbo Shrimp or Plastic Glass. A popular myth.
Fascism is a secular State worshipping religion ,the anti smoking/SUV yada-yada stuff is the same kind of rallying crap that Italian and German fascists(gasp,Nazi's)were using in 20's and 30's.
Replace the militarism of the Italian and German fascists and the genocidal tendencies of the Hun with pacifism and you get the Democrat party platform.
Obama and his buddies in the Democrat party are Mommy State Fascists.
They're "experts",you and I are stupid and need them to engineer society for our own good.
No thank you.
You have no business quoting George Carlin...I think its abundantly clear what side of this argument he'd be on.
I wasn't attributing an opinion to him bonehead.....
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Quote: I see a lot of logical leaps between what Obama says and the conclusions the author makes.
But more importantly, you have no ***** clue what fascism is. Fascism at its core is collusion between the government and big business. The ideology came about when Socialists came together with Monarchists. These strange bedfellows came together because they both were convinced classical liberalism (which is nothing like your definition of liberalism. classical liberalism is basically free market capitalism) had caused western society to go into a tailspin.
Anyways, the author's fearmongering seems to describe a despot or tyranny as opposed to a fascist.
A collusion between a socialist government and big business is fascism huh?
To quote George Carlin that sounds like Jumbo Shrimp or Plastic Glass. A popular myth.
Fascism is a secular State worshipping religion ,the anti smoking/SUV yada-yada stuff is the same kind of rallying crap that Italian and German fascists(gasp,Nazi's)were using in 20's and 30's.
Replace the militarism of the Italian and German fascists and the genocidal tendencies of the Hun with pacifism and you get the Democrat party platform.
Obama and his buddies in the Democrat party are Mommy State Fascists.
They're "experts",you and I are stupid and need them to engineer society for our own good.
No thank you.
you're putting too much weight into buzzwords and rhetoric.
the relationship between socialism and fascism is in a way comparable to judaism and christianity. one is essentially an offshoot of the other and they share a few common traits, but in practice they're still very different.
Whats the difference between state worship and patriotism? is it a degree thig?
Post Extras:
Knuckledragger
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: San Diego
Quote: I see a lot of logical leaps between what Obama says and the conclusions the author makes.
But more importantly, you have no ***** clue what fascism is. Fascism at its core is collusion between the government and big business. The ideology came about when Socialists came together with Monarchists. These strange bedfellows came together because they both were convinced classical liberalism (which is nothing like your definition of liberalism. classical liberalism is basically free market capitalism) had caused western society to go into a tailspin.
Anyways, the author's fearmongering seems to describe a despot or tyranny as opposed to a fascist.
A collusion between a socialist government and big business is fascism huh?
To quote George Carlin that sounds like Jumbo Shrimp or Plastic Glass. A popular myth.
Fascism is a secular State worshipping religion ,the anti smoking/SUV yada-yada stuff is the same kind of rallying crap that Italian and German fascists(gasp,Nazi's)were using in 20's and 30's.
Replace the militarism of the Italian and German fascists and the genocidal tendencies of the Hun with pacifism and you get the Democrat party platform.
Obama and his buddies in the Democrat party are Mommy State Fascists.
They're "experts",you and I are stupid and need them to engineer society for our own good.
No thank you.
you're putting too much weight into buzzwords and rhetoric.
the relationship between socialism and fascism is in a way comparable to judaism and christianity. one is essentially an offshoot of the other and they share a few common traits, but in practice they're still very different.
Whats the difference between state worship and patriotism? is it a degree thig?
Patriots generally fear god.
The fascist state has no God but the State.When man or the State is God it's led to some extremely nasty behavior like the Holocaust,Gulags etc.-etc.
This is one reason why even though I'm fairly agnostic-I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Post Extras:
GetShacked
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 2644
Quote: I see a lot of logical leaps between what Obama says and the conclusions the author makes.
But more importantly, you have no ***** clue what fascism is. Fascism at its core is collusion between the government and big business. The ideology came about when Socialists came together with Monarchists. These strange bedfellows came together because they both were convinced classical liberalism (which is nothing like your definition of liberalism. classical liberalism is basically free market capitalism) had caused western society to go into a tailspin.
Anyways, the author's fearmongering seems to describe a despot or tyranny as opposed to a fascist.
A collusion between a socialist government and big business is fascism huh?
To quote George Carlin that sounds like Jumbo Shrimp or Plastic Glass. A popular myth.
Fascism is a secular State worshipping religion ,the anti smoking/SUV yada-yada stuff is the same kind of rallying crap that Italian and German fascists(gasp,Nazi's)were using in 20's and 30's.
Replace the militarism of the Italian and German fascists and the genocidal tendencies of the Hun with pacifism and you get the Democrat party platform.
Obama and his buddies in the Democrat party are Mommy State Fascists.
They're "experts",you and I are stupid and need them to engineer society for our own good.
No thank you.
you're putting too much weight into buzzwords and rhetoric.
the relationship between socialism and fascism is in a way comparable to judaism and christianity. one is essentially an offshoot of the other and they share a few common traits, but in practice they're still very different.
Whats the difference between state worship and patriotism? is it a degree thig?
Patriots generally fear god.
The fascist state has no God but the State.When man or the State is God it's led to some extremely nasty behavior like the Holocaust,Gulags etc.-etc.
This is one reason why even though I'm fairly agnostic-I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
Funny you mention gulags...who are the proponents of Gitmo? You and other god fearing neo-cons like yourself.
That said being a patriot has nothing to do with god.
Quote: patriot |ˈpātrēət|noun a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
And then there's that dreaded word you like to throw around and associate with Liberals...you know what I'm talking about...Fascism.
Quote: fascism |ˈfa sh ˌizəm| (also Fascism) noun an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
Quote: The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43), and the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.
DERIVATIVES fascist noun & adjective fascistic |faˈ sh istik| adjective ORIGIN from Italian fascismo, from fascio ‘bundle, political group,’ from Latin fascis (see fasces ).
You say because patriots don't think of the state as a god its somehow safer. What about when they think of the state as God's state as if America is more blessed by God than any other state...isn't that kind of the same concept?
Let's see
right wing? - check. Do I need to explain that one?
authoritarian? - check. Hmm lets see who wants to erase the checks and balances of our gov't in place of a supreme leader?
intolerant? - check. Hmm who hates immigrants? Who hates gays? Who hates muslims?
demogogic approach? - check. When was the last time a Republican said anything rational?
supremacy of one national or ethnic group? - this is a grey area but why just ethnic or national? Why not religious as in Christian. You guys all think of us as a Christian country who want Biblical law which clearly shows signs of religious elitism and a wish for Christian supremacy. It applies in my book so CHECK.
Now tell me which american political ideology really leans towards fascism? Look in the mirror amigo
I find it really ironic that you slap liberals with the fascist label for not having a god while also slapping the label upon "islamofascists" who have a god but not a state...hmm which is it? Can't really have it both ways. It's pretty clear that fascism is nothing more than a boogey man word that you like to slap on anyone you disagree with. The irony is that neo-cons fit the fascist mold more than both liberals and islamic fundamentalists.
Edited by GetShacked (07/02/08 05:33 PM)
Post Extras:
rocklobster
Gerry Lopez status
Reged: 05/09/02
Posts: 1023
Loc: Newport, CA
Quote: I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
Complete bullshit. Cite *any* mainstream source for that statement.
Post Extras:
GetShacked
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 2644
Quote: I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
Complete bullshit. Cite *any* mainstream source for that statement.
If its true than maybe all of us godless liberals should convert to islamic fundamentalism and less people will die right?
Post Extras:
Knuckledragger
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: San Diego
Quote: I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
Complete bullshit. Cite *any* mainstream source for that statement.
Godless:
Nazi's: How 'bout we just give 'em credit for the Jews? 6 Million +
Communists,to include the USSR (Stalin made Hitler look like a little girl when it came to mass murder).
China/Mao
Cambodia/Pol Pot
North Korea (ongoing)
I'll stop there so I dont take up too much bandwidth. The Commies alone racked up 100 million dead,the only reason why the Nazi's always get the most hate for their genocidal tendencies is because we've got lots images of the Holocaust....there was no invading army to get pictures of the Gulags,western Progressive journalists had no interest in digging into the reports of the Ukrainian forced famine .......
This is,or should be common knowledge.
Do your own research.
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Post Extras:
Knuckledragger
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: San Diego
Quote: I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
Complete bullshit. Cite *any* mainstream source for that statement.
If its true than maybe all of us godless liberals should convert to islamic fundamentalism and less people will die right?
...well,at least there'd be more births than deaths!
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Post Extras:
GetShacked
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 2644
I like how you conveniently took the time to respond to my joke but you conveniently ignored my response calling you out for your repeated misuse of the word fascism. Dont be a coward like your pal Fracas and cut and run. How about you give me a lil courtesy and defend your use of the word.
Post Extras:
Knuckledragger
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: San Diego
Quote: I see a lot of logical leaps between what Obama says and the conclusions the author makes.
But more importantly, you have no ***** clue what fascism is. Fascism at its core is collusion between the government and big business. The ideology came about when Socialists came together with Monarchists. These strange bedfellows came together because they both were convinced classical liberalism (which is nothing like your definition of liberalism. classical liberalism is basically free market capitalism) had caused western society to go into a tailspin.
Anyways, the author's fearmongering seems to describe a despot or tyranny as opposed to a fascist.
A collusion between a socialist government and big business is fascism huh?
To quote George Carlin that sounds like Jumbo Shrimp or Plastic Glass. A popular myth.
Fascism is a secular State worshipping religion ,the anti smoking/SUV yada-yada stuff is the same kind of rallying crap that Italian and German fascists(gasp,Nazi's)were using in 20's and 30's.
Replace the militarism of the Italian and German fascists and the genocidal tendencies of the Hun with pacifism and you get the Democrat party platform.
Obama and his buddies in the Democrat party are Mommy State Fascists.
They're "experts",you and I are stupid and need them to engineer society for our own good.
No thank you.
you're putting too much weight into buzzwords and rhetoric.
the relationship between socialism and fascism is in a way comparable to judaism and christianity. one is essentially an offshoot of the other and they share a few common traits, but in practice they're still very different.
Whats the difference between state worship and patriotism? is it a degree thig?
Patriots generally fear god.
The fascist state has no God but the State.When man or the State is God it's led to some extremely nasty behavior like the Holocaust,Gulags etc.-etc.
This is one reason why even though I'm fairly agnostic-I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
Funny you mention gulags...who are the proponents of Gitmo? You and other god fearing neo-cons like yourself.
That said being a patriot has nothing to do with god.
Quote: patriot |ˈpātrēət|noun a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
And then there's that dreaded word you like to throw around and associate with Liberals...you know what I'm talking about...Fascism.
Quote: fascism |ˈfa sh ˌizəm| (also Fascism) noun an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
Quote: The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43), and the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.
DERIVATIVES fascist noun & adjective fascistic |faˈ sh istik| adjective ORIGIN from Italian fascismo, from fascio ‘bundle, political group,’ from Latin fascis (see fasces ).
You say because patriots don't think of the state as a god its somehow safer. What about when they think of the state as God's state as if America is more blessed by God than any other state...isn't that kind of the same concept?
Let's see
right wing? - check. Do I need to explain that one?
authoritarian? - check. Hmm lets see who wants to erase the checks and balances of our gov't in place of a supreme leader?
intolerant? - check. Hmm who hates immigrants? Who hates gays? Who hates muslims?
demogogic approach? - check. When was the last time a Republican said anything rational?
supremacy of one national or ethnic group? - this is a grey area but why just ethnic or national? Why not religious as in Christian. You guys all think of us as a Christian country who want Biblical law which clearly shows signs of religious elitism and a wish for Christian supremacy. It applies in my book so CHECK.
Now tell me which american political ideology really leans towards fascism? Look in the mirror amigo
I find it really ironic that you slap liberals with the fascist label for not having a god while also slapping the label upon "islamofascists" who have a god but not a state...hmm which is it? Can't really have it both ways. It's pretty clear that fascism is nothing more than a boogey man word that you like to slap on anyone you disagree with. The irony is that neo-cons fit the fascist mold more than both liberals and islamic fundamentalists.
My apologies, I missed this one.
I'll be as brief as I can be on my use of the term Fascism.
Fascism(ists):
A)Mussolini,more or less the father of fascism,was a Socialist first,a man of the LEFT and an atheist(and quite a character btw,called Mein Kampf "a brick" and smart as a whip,not the quite the buffoon that pop history remembers him as).
B)Nazi= National SOCIALIST German Workers Party(it's right there in the name).
The Italian and German Fascists were politically to the right of the Communists at the time,they were not right wing by any stretch of the imagination. I believe the "right wing" myth was actually started and perpetuated by the Communists.
Italian and German (Nazi)Fascists are/were leftists....period.
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Quote: I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
Complete bullshit. Cite *any* mainstream source for that statement.
Godless:
Nazi's: How 'bout we just give 'em credit for the Jews? 6 Million +
Communists,to include the USSR (Stalin made Hitler look like a little girl when it came to mass murder).
China/Mao
Cambodia/Pol Pot
North Korea (ongoing)
I'll stop there so I dont take up too much bandwidth. The Commies alone racked up 100 million dead,the only reason why the Nazi's always get the most hate for their genocidal tendencies is because we've got lots images of the Holocaust....there was no invading army to get pictures of the Gulags,western Progressive journalists had no interest in digging into the reports of the Ukrainian forced famine .......
This is,or should be common knowledge.
Do your own research.
It was done a few months ago and your bullshit got shot down.
Give the Catholics credit - they are efficient.
-------------------- Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.
Russ Meyer
Post Extras:
Knuckledragger
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: San Diego
Quote: I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
Complete bullshit. Cite *any* mainstream source for that statement.
Godless:
Nazi's: How 'bout we just give 'em credit for the Jews? 6 Million +
Communists,to include the USSR (Stalin made Hitler look like a little girl when it came to mass murder).
China/Mao
Cambodia/Pol Pot
North Korea (ongoing)
I'll stop there so I dont take up too much bandwidth. The Commies alone racked up 100 million dead,the only reason why the Nazi's always get the most hate for their genocidal tendencies is because we've got lots images of the Holocaust....there was no invading army to get pictures of the Gulags,western Progressive journalists had no interest in digging into the reports of the Ukrainian forced famine .......
This is,or should be common knowledge.
Do your own research.
It was done a few months ago and your bullshit got shot down.
Give the Catholics credit - they are efficient.
Feel free to refresh our memories.......
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Quote: I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
Complete bullshit. Cite *any* mainstream source for that statement.
Godless:
Nazi's: How 'bout we just give 'em credit for the Jews? 6 Million +
Communists,to include the USSR (Stalin made Hitler look like a little girl when it came to mass murder).
China/Mao
Cambodia/Pol Pot
North Korea (ongoing)
I'll stop there so I dont take up too much bandwidth. The Commies alone racked up 100 million dead,the only reason why the Nazi's always get the most hate for their genocidal tendencies is because we've got lots images of the Holocaust....there was no invading army to get pictures of the Gulags,western Progressive journalists had no interest in digging into the reports of the Ukrainian forced famine .......
This is,or should be common knowledge.
Do your own research.
It was done a few months ago and your bullshit got shot down.
Give the Catholics credit - they are efficient.
Feel free to refresh our memories.......
I would accuse you of playing dumb but everyone here knows that is not the case.
This was previously hashed out - don't pretend otherwise.
In total, from Colombus' arrival, the Native American population decreased by as much as 100 million. Many massacres over that period of time throughout the Americas.
Then we can talk about Armenia, Spain, the Crusades, just for starters. Then you can also remember the fact Hitler had the full support of the Catholic Church (not to mention that Germany was hardly an atheist nation!) so that is a 12 million death swing right there. That is just the tip of the iceberg.
And why just stop at murder? You have the torture taking place during the Spanish Inquisition also, don't you? Mildly religious based, wouldn't you say? Our Christian government learned fast, didn't they? Not fast enough to get the Iron Maiden in Gitmo (as far as we know) but close enough for government work.
-------------------- Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.
Russ Meyer
Post Extras:
Knuckledragger
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: San Diego
Quote: I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
Complete bullshit. Cite *any* mainstream source for that statement.
Godless:
Nazi's: How 'bout we just give 'em credit for the Jews? 6 Million +
Communists,to include the USSR (Stalin made Hitler look like a little girl when it came to mass murder).
China/Mao
Cambodia/Pol Pot
North Korea (ongoing)
I'll stop there so I dont take up too much bandwidth. The Commies alone racked up 100 million dead,the only reason why the Nazi's always get the most hate for their genocidal tendencies is because we've got lots images of the Holocaust....there was no invading army to get pictures of the Gulags,western Progressive journalists had no interest in digging into the reports of the Ukrainian forced famine .......
This is,or should be common knowledge.
Do your own research.
It was done a few months ago and your bullshit got shot down.
Give the Catholics credit - they are efficient.
Feel free to refresh our memories.......
I would accuse you of playing dumb but everyone here knows that is not the case.
This was previously hashed out - don't pretend otherwise.
In total, from Colombus' arrival, the Native American population decreased by as much as 100 million. Many massacres over that period of time throughout the Americas.
Then we can talk about Armenia, Spain, the Crusades, just for starters. Then you can also remember the fact Hitler had the full support of the Catholic Church so that is a 12 million death swing right there. That is just the tip of the iceberg.
And why just stop at murder? You have the torture taking place during the Spanish Inquisition also, don't you? Mildly religious based, wouldn't you say?
Stalin: "Genocide? Preposterous! Our population merely "decreased" by oh 40 to 60 million.Those Ukrainians?Well they were just the shittiest farmers ever.Gulags? C'mon,what the hell else do ya' do with right wing nut jobs that wont think...uhhh,,,Right!"
Re: 1)Hitler,full support of Catholic Church?...like having "the full support" of the French?
2)"Native American" population "decreasing" by "as much as" 100,000,000(that'd be some multiple of the actual total population of "native Americans" from 1492 to present,for F's sake,that'd make them extinct and then some).
3)Lets talk about the Crusades(ooooh!),the Turks on the Armenians(careful,I've got Armenian family)and.....that bloodbath known as the The Spanish Inquisition!
Count the bodies for me there Kento. How 'bout manning up and just picking one of those....I'm really interested in the one hundred million "decrease" in native Americans after Chris Columbus showed up in the Carribean so why not just pick that one??Christ,I'll at least admit that there was no census of the native American population until what?? Late 1800's???
You're best bet is the Armenian genocide but I implore you to work the native American "genocide" angle...it'll be a lot more fun.
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Quote: I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
Complete bullshit. Cite *any* mainstream source for that statement.
Godless:
Nazi's: How 'bout we just give 'em credit for the Jews? 6 Million +
Communists,to include the USSR (Stalin made Hitler look like a little girl when it came to mass murder).
China/Mao
Cambodia/Pol Pot
North Korea (ongoing)
I'll stop there so I dont take up too much bandwidth. The Commies alone racked up 100 million dead,the only reason why the Nazi's always get the most hate for their genocidal tendencies is because we've got lots images of the Holocaust....there was no invading army to get pictures of the Gulags,western Progressive journalists had no interest in digging into the reports of the Ukrainian forced famine .......
This is,or should be common knowledge.
Do your own research.
It was done a few months ago and your bullshit got shot down.
Give the Catholics credit - they are efficient.
Feel free to refresh our memories.......
I would accuse you of playing dumb but everyone here knows that is not the case.
This was previously hashed out - don't pretend otherwise.
In total, from Colombus' arrival, the Native American population decreased by as much as 100 million. Many massacres over that period of time throughout the Americas.
Then we can talk about Armenia, Spain, the Crusades, just for starters. Then you can also remember the fact Hitler had the full support of the Catholic Church so that is a 12 million death swing right there. That is just the tip of the iceberg.
And why just stop at murder? You have the torture taking place during the Spanish Inquisition also, don't you? Mildly religious based, wouldn't you say?
Stalin: "Genocide? Preposterous! Our population merely "decreased" by oh 40 to 60 million.Those Ukrainians?Well they were just the shittiest farmers ever.Gulags? C'mon,what the hell else do ya' do with right wing nut jobs that wont think...uhhh,,,Right!"
Re: 1)Hitler,full support of Catholic Church?...like having "the full support" of the French?
2)"Native American" population "decreasing" by "as much as" 100,000,000(that'd be some multiple of the actual total population of "native Americans" from 1492 to present,for F's sake,that'd make them extinct and then some).
3)Lets talk about the Crusades(ooooh!),the Turks on the Armenians(careful,I've got Armenian family)and.....that bloodbath known as the The Spanish Inquisition!
Count the bodies for me there Kento. How 'bout manning up and just picking one of those....I'm really interested in the one hundred million "decrease" in native Americans after Chris Columbus showed up in the Carribean so why not just pick that one??Christ,I'll at least admit that there was no census of the native American population until what?? Late 1800's???
You're best bet is the Armenian genocide but I implore you to work the native American "genocide" angle...it'll be a lot more fun.
We've gone over this before.
Are you trying to actually claim that Germany was an atheist country? Also, you are aware that Judaism IS a religion, aren't you?
There are many generations between 1492 and Wounded Knee. Over that time, the number of native Americans killed has been calculated in numbers approaching 100 million. Even if it was only half that, for arguments sake, that still shoots holes in your cliche of atheistic genocide over 100 years vs. religious genocide over the history of mankind.
You actually don't think the other slaughters I mentioned had anything to do with religion?
Face it: religion isn't the rosy "WE ARE FAMILY" group hug you envision it as. Deal with it.
Also, you can't have it both ways - don't you and your brethen constantly fret over the fear that militant Islam is going to take over the world by the sword? That wouldn't be the work of atheism, now would it? By your rationale, since they are religious, we should have nothing to fear whatsoever from the Middle East, right?
One more thing: you do also realize it is MORE than a bit ironic that you are spouting your bullshit bumper sticker cliches while sporting an avatar of a hitman who recites the Bible during his hits, right?
-------------------- Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.
Russ Meyer
Post Extras:
Knuckledragger
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: San Diego
Are you trying to actually claim that Germany was an atheist country? Also, you are aware that Judaism IS a religion, aren't you?
There are many generations between 1492 and Wounded Knee. Over that time, the number of native Americans killed has been calculated in numbers approaching 100 million. Even if it was only half that, for arguments sake, that still shoots holes in your cliche of atheistic genocide over 100 years vs. religious genocide over the history of mankind.
You actually don't think the other slaughters I mentioned had anything to do with religion?
Face it: religion isn't the rosy "WE ARE FAMILY" group hug you envision it as. Deal with it.
Also, you can't have it both ways - don't you and your brethen constantly fret over the fear that militant Islam is going to take over the world by the sword? That wouldn't be the work of atheism, now would it? By your rationale, since they are religious, we should have nothing to fear whatsoever from the Middle East, right?
One more thing: you do also realize it is MORE than a bit ironic that you are spouting your bullshit bumper sticker cliches while sporting an avatar of a hitman who recites the Bible during his hits, right?
"Are you trying to actually claim that Germany was an atheist country? Also, you are aware that Judaism IS a religion, aren't you?"
Please. Are you trying to actually claim that America is a Christian country?Also,you are aware that there were Atheists in America,aren't you?
Both statements are technically true and both are worthless and you know it.
"...the number of native Americans killed has been calculated in numbers approaching 100 million ...."
How would one calculate this number?
I'm seeing the world population in the mid 1800's as around 1.2 billion.
America around 65 million at the time......
Mayflower hit the shores at around 1600,...12 generations or so ??
And we managed to murder that many Indians in such a short amount of time?
I'm coming up with about 1100 murdered Indians/Day from 1600ish to 1850ish.
Seems like a lot to me.
I mean,would they have time do murder that many humans and still have time to grow crops,hunt game build log cabins etc. ????
We Americans are an industrious bunch but that seems a bit over ambitious.......
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Are you trying to actually claim that Germany was an atheist country? Also, you are aware that Judaism IS a religion, aren't you?
There are many generations between 1492 and Wounded Knee. Over that time, the number of native Americans killed has been calculated in numbers approaching 100 million. Even if it was only half that, for arguments sake, that still shoots holes in your cliche of atheistic genocide over 100 years vs. religious genocide over the history of mankind.
You actually don't think the other slaughters I mentioned had anything to do with religion?
Face it: religion isn't the rosy "WE ARE FAMILY" group hug you envision it as. Deal with it.
Also, you can't have it both ways - don't you and your brethen constantly fret over the fear that militant Islam is going to take over the world by the sword? That wouldn't be the work of atheism, now would it? By your rationale, since they are religious, we should have nothing to fear whatsoever from the Middle East, right?
One more thing: you do also realize it is MORE than a bit ironic that you are spouting your bullshit bumper sticker cliches while sporting an avatar of a hitman who recites the Bible during his hits, right?
"Are you trying to actually claim that Germany was an atheist country? Also, you are aware that Judaism IS a religion, aren't you?"
Please. Are you trying to actually claim that America is a Christian country?Also,you are aware that there were Atheists in America,aren't you?
Both statements are technically true and both are worthless and you know it.
"...the number of native Americans killed has been calculated in numbers approaching 100 million ...."
How would one calculate this number?
I'm seeing the world population in the mid 1800's as around 1.2 billion.
America around 65 million at the time......
Mayflower hit the shores at around 1600,...12 generations or so ??
And we managed to murder that many Indians in such a short amount of time?
I'm coming up with about 1100 murdered Indians/Day from 1600ish to 1850ish.
Seems like a lot to me.
I mean,would they have time do murder that many humans and still have time to grow crops,hunt game build log cabins etc. ????
We Americans are an industrious bunch but that seems a bit over ambitious.......
Bullshit. Germany is pretty fairly divided - Lutheran in the north, Catholic in the south. You flat out cannot include that in your atheistic regime crap! You don't consider the US to be a Christian nation? Since when?
Mayflower? You forget about Columbus, Cortez, and all the others throughout Latin America. Good, upstanding Catholics all of them. Mayflower was over 150 years later.
Remember what we are refuting here: Your cliche that atheists killed more people in the last 100 years than religious people have since the dawn of mankind. I noticed you posted it on a few threads - what is it, your fear-driven mantra? Been spanking it to O'Reilly and Rush again?
Face it, dastardly shit has been done by religious people for a looooong time. Hell, I'm sure ol' Bull Connor was a fine upstanding Christian as was Bedford Forrest and oh yes, your hero Tom Metzger!
How far back do you want to go? We can quote from the Bible if you like:
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1
Face it, once again, you spouted bullshit propaganda without thinking, scraping your fore-mentioned knuckles in the process, and you got called out on it. End of story. Deal with it.
-------------------- Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.
Russ Meyer
Post Extras:
Knuckledragger
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/17/08
Posts: 2098
Loc: San Diego
Are you trying to actually claim that Germany was an atheist country? Also, you are aware that Judaism IS a religion, aren't you?
There are many generations between 1492 and Wounded Knee. Over that time, the number of native Americans killed has been calculated in numbers approaching 100 million. Even if it was only half that, for arguments sake, that still shoots holes in your cliche of atheistic genocide over 100 years vs. religious genocide over the history of mankind.
You actually don't think the other slaughters I mentioned had anything to do with religion?
Face it: religion isn't the rosy "WE ARE FAMILY" group hug you envision it as. Deal with it.
Also, you can't have it both ways - don't you and your brethen constantly fret over the fear that militant Islam is going to take over the world by the sword? That wouldn't be the work of atheism, now would it? By your rationale, since they are religious, we should have nothing to fear whatsoever from the Middle East, right?
One more thing: you do also realize it is MORE than a bit ironic that you are spouting your bullshit bumper sticker cliches while sporting an avatar of a hitman who recites the Bible during his hits, right?
"Are you trying to actually claim that Germany was an atheist country? Also, you are aware that Judaism IS a religion, aren't you?"
Please. Are you trying to actually claim that America is a Christian country?Also,you are aware that there were Atheists in America,aren't you?
Both statements are technically true and both are worthless and you know it.
"...the number of native Americans killed has been calculated in numbers approaching 100 million ...."
How would one calculate this number?
I'm seeing the world population in the mid 1800's as around 1.2 billion.
America around 65 million at the time......
Mayflower hit the shores at around 1600,...12 generations or so ??
And we managed to murder that many Indians in such a short amount of time?
I'm coming up with about 1100 murdered Indians/Day from 1600ish to 1850ish.
Seems like a lot to me.
I mean,would they have time do murder that many humans and still have time to grow crops,hunt game build log cabins etc. ????
We Americans are an industrious bunch but that seems a bit over ambitious.......
Bullshit. Germany is pretty fairly divided - Lutheran in the north, Catholic in the south. You flat out cannot include that in your atheistic regime crap! You don't consider the US to be a Christian nation? Since when?
Mayflower? You forget about Columbus, Cortez, and all the others throughout Latin America. Good, upstanding Catholics all of them. Mayflower was over 150 years later.
Remember what we are refuting here: Your cliche that atheists killed more people in the last 100 years than religious people have since the dawn of mankind. I noticed you posted it on a few threads - what is it, your fear-driven mantra? Been spanking it to O'Reilly and Rush again?
Face it, dastardly shit has been done by religious people for a looooong time. Hell, I'm sure ol' Bull Connor was a fine upstanding Christian as was Bedford Forrest and oh yes, your hero Tom Metzger!
How far back do you want to go? We can quote from the Bible if you like:
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1
Face it, once again, you spouted bullshit propaganda without thinking, scraping your fore-mentioned knuckles in the process, and you got called out on it. End of story. Deal with it.
Nazism is a GODLESS ideology.
You're trying to make a case for some religious based Euro/American 100 million body long genocide against the Indians.
Before you can even begin to make a case for motives you have to explain the colossal logistics associated with deliberately killing a hundred million people over a period of around 250 yrs.....lets be conservative and call it 350,000 dead Indians/year.
Where are the mass graves for F's sake...you'd think every other neighborhood in the Dakotas would be living the Poltergeist nightmare as we speak........
Just aside from the utterly,stupendously ridiculous numbers that your talking about I suspect that like most of your fellow travelers you count Indians dying of disease and starvation in the Native American "genocide".....as if this never happened before the big bad White Europeans came along.
The last word is yours,I'm going to be drunk in Palm Springs for the next 3 days.........
-------------------- PPK ain't my daddy. Though I wish he was.- HydroSprout
Are you trying to actually claim that Germany was an atheist country? Also, you are aware that Judaism IS a religion, aren't you?
There are many generations between 1492 and Wounded Knee. Over that time, the number of native Americans killed has been calculated in numbers approaching 100 million. Even if it was only half that, for arguments sake, that still shoots holes in your cliche of atheistic genocide over 100 years vs. religious genocide over the history of mankind.
You actually don't think the other slaughters I mentioned had anything to do with religion?
Face it: religion isn't the rosy "WE ARE FAMILY" group hug you envision it as. Deal with it.
Also, you can't have it both ways - don't you and your brethen constantly fret over the fear that militant Islam is going to take over the world by the sword? That wouldn't be the work of atheism, now would it? By your rationale, since they are religious, we should have nothing to fear whatsoever from the Middle East, right?
One more thing: you do also realize it is MORE than a bit ironic that you are spouting your bullshit bumper sticker cliches while sporting an avatar of a hitman who recites the Bible during his hits, right?
"Are you trying to actually claim that Germany was an atheist country? Also, you are aware that Judaism IS a religion, aren't you?"
Please. Are you trying to actually claim that America is a Christian country?Also,you are aware that there were Atheists in America,aren't you?
Both statements are technically true and both are worthless and you know it.
"...the number of native Americans killed has been calculated in numbers approaching 100 million ...."
How would one calculate this number?
I'm seeing the world population in the mid 1800's as around 1.2 billion.
America around 65 million at the time......
Mayflower hit the shores at around 1600,...12 generations or so ??
And we managed to murder that many Indians in such a short amount of time?
I'm coming up with about 1100 murdered Indians/Day from 1600ish to 1850ish.
Seems like a lot to me.
I mean,would they have time do murder that many humans and still have time to grow crops,hunt game build log cabins etc. ????
We Americans are an industrious bunch but that seems a bit over ambitious.......
Bullshit. Germany is pretty fairly divided - Lutheran in the north, Catholic in the south. You flat out cannot include that in your atheistic regime crap! You don't consider the US to be a Christian nation? Since when?
Mayflower? You forget about Columbus, Cortez, and all the others throughout Latin America. Good, upstanding Catholics all of them. Mayflower was over 150 years later.
Remember what we are refuting here: Your cliche that atheists killed more people in the last 100 years than religious people have since the dawn of mankind. I noticed you posted it on a few threads - what is it, your fear-driven mantra? Been spanking it to O'Reilly and Rush again?
Face it, dastardly shit has been done by religious people for a looooong time. Hell, I'm sure ol' Bull Connor was a fine upstanding Christian as was Bedford Forrest and oh yes, your hero Tom Metzger!
How far back do you want to go? We can quote from the Bible if you like:
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1
Face it, once again, you spouted bullshit propaganda without thinking, scraping your fore-mentioned knuckles in the process, and you got called out on it. End of story. Deal with it.
Nazism is a GODLESS ideology.
You're trying to make a case for some religious based Euro/American 100 million body long genocide against the Indians.
Before you can even begin to make a case for motives you have to explain the colossal logistics associated with deliberately killing a hundred million people over a period of around 250 yrs.....lets be conservative and call it 350,000 dead Indians/year.
Where are the mass graves for F's sake...you'd think every other neighborhood in the Dakotas would be living the Poltergeist nightmare as we speak........
Just aside from the utterly,stupendously ridiculous numbers that your talking about I suspect that like most of your fellow travelers you count Indians dying of disease and starvation in the Native American "genocide".....as if this never happened before the big bad White Europeans came along.
The last word is yours,I'm going to be drunk in Palm Springs for the next 3 days.........
So you're saying the Germans were Christian the whole time up until Hitler, became godless during his reign, then went back to Christian right afterwards? You really don't have a clue, do you?
There is no doubt syphilis and smallpox are responsible for a good chunk of that death but it doesn't make them any more alive, does it?
Mass graves? Well, there was quite a large Indian graveyard right underneath what is now the Staples Center parking lot. Not sure which landfill all the bones are at now.
I noticed you still ducked everything else - typical of you.
Well, at least there's this: You don't have to worry about alcohol killing any of your brain cells.
-------------------- Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.
Russ Meyer
Post Extras:
RbrOutlier
Gerry Lopez status
Reged: 06/04/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Rubber
Quote: This is one reason why even though I'm fairly agnostic-I always remind my Secular Liberal Christian bashing friends that the Godless Commie/Fascist/Socialist/Nazi's murdered more humans in the 20th century than all religions combined ever.
-------------------- establish Justice, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare
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