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Quote: I think the bitter "non-surfing Sierra Club kooks" you are referring to are the Mount Maunganui locals, where it is well known that the reef built by ASR was a failure, destroying a decent wave in the process. I don't blame them for being bitter.
So that's Roy and Company on that incredibly mushy wave he put up videos of himself surfing/setting world speed records? Yeah. Maybe. If that's all Roy however, he's got like zero credibility as far as I'm concerned.
Quote: I never said I didn't believe in artificial reefs. I simply question several aspects of the project, which taken together, make me deeply suspicious of this company.
I directed that question at ProudKook. Are you him too??
Quote: I assume the dribbly left that you refer to that existed 'before' is Kovalam. That is precisely my point. The 'before' and 'after' in the video is absolutely no proof at all if we don't know that conditions were similar on both days.
I disagree. The place went from a sloppy closed out beach break to something akin to Big Rock wave after wave. That was a remarkable transformation.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
Post Extras:
Q_Surf
Tom Curren status
Reged: 05/05/03
Posts: 14410
Loc: world's largest oregon
Quote: ...I disagree. The place went from a sloppy closed out beach break to something akin to Big Rock wave after wave. That was a remarkable transformation.
our local spots can do that (but usually in reverse order ) in the course of an hour.
Actually, ASR themselves admit that both their reefs in NZ were failures. Too bad Roy got in that mix though, causing the detractors to lose cred cos of him.
I'm not Proudkook.
How do you know for a fact that it was only a sloppy closed out beach break and nothing else? Like I said, I've surfed there, and it did get good, often.
It may very well be everything they say it is, but the evidence at this moment is simply not convincing enough to me. Theres too many loopholes. Hell, even ASR hasn't been there after it was built. If you built a bridge, would you build it and just walk away from it the next day, and rely on photos/videos taken by a 'contact' as proof that its ok?
Post Extras:
GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32168
Loc: Dustopia
Quote: Actually, ASR themselves admit that both their reefs in NZ were failures. Too bad Roy got in that mix though, causing the detractors to lose cred cos of him.
I'm not Proudkook.
How do you know for a fact that it was only a sloppy closed out beach break and nothing else? Like I said, I've surfed there, and it did get good, often.
It may very well be everything they say it is, but the evidence at this moment is simply not convincing enough to me. Theres too many loopholes. Hell, even ASR hasn't been there after it was built. If you built a bridge, would you build it and just walk away from it the next day, and rely on photos/videos taken by a 'contact' as proof that its ok?
I searched around on the web I couldn't find any account of surfing at that place that characterized it as anything other than a squishy little beach break. You are the only person I have heard characterize the place as "good." To turn this around, can you find any picture/video of that place looking even remotely as good/hollow as on the ASR video? I couldn't. You can't either or we'd be looking at it. Did you ever see it get that hollow and consistent, on the same lineup spot, over and over again?
Whether this reef keeps working or not should be easily verified at some point. If it sucks, ASR won't be able to hide that for long. It's bound to out. I have no idea whether ASR has been back or not. Are they getting video updates? I have no idea. But if I was halfway around the world and getting videos of the reef working well, yeah, that probably would satisfy me for awhile. I'm interested in how it fares long term. That's going to be the test.
What I don't get is this orchestrated effort to go after it, I don't understand the kind of emotion that has people issuing death threats on the internet over an artificial reef. I mean think about that. Is that not more than just a little bit loony?
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
I agree with Ugga Bugga. I've got no axe to grind, I'm just a Lennox local suspicious of the marketing campaign and lack of supporting evidence on this project. Especially when ASR is going so hard to get their hands on taxpayers money around the globe. Call me old fashioned but being slightly sceptical of marketing claims from corporations has never let me down yet. ASR, we need some fresh footage of this project and some unbiased, on the ground reporting from the area. So far, all I see in the surf media is mass regurgitation of the ASR press releases and marketing spin.
-------------------- All the sailors with their seasick mamas hear the sirens on the shore.
Thanks guys for joining the discussion. You guys have probably seen the Surfer Mag article. Since we released the Kovalam footage, it's been non-stop. And we're really excited about everyone coming out and showing support for changing coastal protection methods and making waves.
Ultimately, Kovalam will speak for itself. I do look forward to saying a bit more as soon as I find some extra time tomorrow. For now, keep the exciting discussion going..
Im not part of any orchestrated effort, nor do I have any vested interests. It does seem though, that ASR has really made some enemies in the past. If anything, that makes me trust their claims even less. Death threats do seem kinda loony though.
But time will tell. The monsoons are around the corner, and handling 3 months of sustained rough seas will be the true test of the reef.
I too, like freeride, happen to take corporate claims with a pinch of salt, and when I saw surfermag, surfline and others go all out based on one questionable video, decided to chime in. If anything, ASR were extremely unprofessional is using that video. A scientific project needs scientific evidence, of which there is none.
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GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32168
Loc: Dustopia
Im not part of any orchestrated effort, nor do I have any vested interests. It does seem though, that ASR has really made some enemies in the past. If anything, that makes me trust their claims even less. Death threats do seem kinda loony though.
But time will tell. The monsoons are around the corner, and handling 3 months of sustained rough seas will be the true test of the reef.
I too, like freeride, happen to take corporate claims with a pinch of salt, and when I saw surfermag, surfline and others go all out based on one questionable video, decided to chime in. If anything, ASR were extremely unprofessional is using that video. A scientific project needs scientific evidence, of which there is none.
Saw it on my search. Plus ProudKook already linked to it on page two. Like I said, squishy little beach break to a solid tube. Utter slop to full barrel. Night and day.
And if the ASR video wasn't faked, I don't know how you figure using it was "unprofessional." If that's what was happening, it's valid.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
My point is that you can't use a single snapshot to claim success. Especially for something this new. Doing so, IMO, is unscientific and unprofessional.
GWS, if you take the time to do a little research you might find that ASR has been been very ready to play fast and loose with the truth to get their hands on taxpayers money. Therefore their claims need scrutiny. It's just due diligence thats all. They made the reef in Feb..... it's now May so what has happened in the mean-time?
If ASR doesn't supply some meaningful information then people whos taxpayer dollars might go into the next project have a right to be sceptical.
-------------------- All the sailors with their seasick mamas hear the sirens on the shore.
Sorry for the delayed response. As I said, since we released the Kovalam Multi-Purpose Reef footage, the interest has been non-stop. One thing I would like to mention is that ASR is in the process of continuing to produce valid documentation of the Kovalam Multi-Purpose Reef in action. Including its erosion prevention capabilities and ecological benefits. Please have some patience, India is a long way off from NZ and Venice…
People like to paint this picture of ASR being some all powerful corporation. Nothing could be further from the truth. Rather it's a small group of passionate individuals who's only mission is to prevent destructive coastal protection measures and promote education.
We have an interesting discussion going on here and I'm happy to see people come out on both sides of the argument. I'd like to thank everyone who 'understands' what ASR is trying to do and who have shown so much excitement. As I said in my last post, the Kovalam project will speak for itself.
Please have a look at the differences in these following videos...
Before
and
After the Kovalam Multi-Purpose Reef
Nick, one of the guys at ASR on a small one...
And the Kovalam, Multi-Purpose Reef video...
If it's difficult for you to see the changes made by ASR's Multi-Purpose Reef, then I don't know why we're having the discussion at all.
Having said that, Kovalam needed a coastal protection structure designed to retain sediment on the beach. And that’s what the Kovalam Multi-Purpose reef is designed to do. The fact that it’s producing incredible waves is really just an added bonus, but not a coincidence (we designed it that way).
Two thirds of the Kerala coastline is lined by obtrusive by seawalls that actually accelerate coastal erosion. If you're not for Multi-Purpose reefs, then by default, you're essentially promoting seawall construction. It’s basically one or the other.
Everyone at ASR is really excited to see people so enthused by and paying attention to alternative approaches. Promoting world wide education regarding coastal protection structures in one of ASR's main goals.
So on that note, I'm surprised, seeing as you're obviously educated on the subject, that you're not happy to see a wave and a Multi-Purpose reef instead of a jetty or breakwater.
Sorry Adam, I am still not completely convinced you guys have made a difference. Its too early to tell. Especially when it comes to the sediment retainment part. Since that was the original goal, I would assume you guys would have pursued studying the success of that aspect some more (or hopefully, are currently doing).
And since the bulk of coastal erosion takes place during the monsoons, you can't claim success until after.
Also, saying to 'choose wisely' is dishonest. While you are correct in saying that seawalls accelerate erosion, the current view in the coastal oceanography community is of letting nature take its course (without seawalls). Erosion in one place leads to accretion in another, so the overall sand budget is usually preserved. Of course this means not building right on the beach, for which there are already rules in place. In India, no construction is allowed within 500 m of the mean high tide level. Strict enforcement of these rules, together with the dismantling of seawalls is a far more efficient long-term solution. You obviously won't agree with this, since thats bad for business.
Post Extras:
jp68
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/14/07
Posts: 2596
Loc: the universe
from what i can see it looks like they turned a peaky shore whomp to a grinder that feeds in to shore whompage,looks good to me a liitle footage would be necessary to pass judgement though
Post Extras:
Haiku
Gerry Lopez status
Reged: 12/08/05
Posts: 1018
Hey, just wanted to answer some of the questions directed at me.
No, I have nothing against artificial reefs as a means against coastal erosion if they do as intended. Yes I have a problem with ASR. Yes I did join the forum because of this topic... I wanted people to do some more research into ASR and their product before accepting that it could be some sort of wonder cure.
Adam recently asked me what my beef was with ASR. Here is my reply on another surf forum if you are interested...
Hope this clears things up for you. If you are interested, an independent report by a university into whether the UK's surf reef (not MPR) is working as intended has concluded it is not. Check news stories on the Bournemouth Echo (newspaper) site and the readers comments for more info/opinion.
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) in the course of an hour.
