Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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Quote:
PLEASE TAKE PHYSICS 101
any change in speed or direction IS acceleration.
Yes of course but that includes slowing down or turning !
I doubt if that's what you meant by 'accelerating throughout the ride'
Quote:
hence, faster turns, with tighter arcs, equal greater acceleration.
You are confused.
You claimed that Taylor Knox on the bonzer would be accelerating throughout the ride whereas the olo would reach a 'terminal velocity', and that the bonzer would therefore go faster.
Unfortunately acceleration as defined by yourself i.e. including slowing down and changes in direction does not entail a higher speed.
All you are really saying is that he jerks his board around a lot, an obvious fact which does not demonstrate greater speed.
If you were indeed trying to say in your confused way that the bonzer rider will acclerate throughout the ride i.e. will keep gaining speed throughout the ride then that is highly unlikely, and I can show you why if you like.
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acceleration is anything that produces "g-forces". short boards with toed fins have infinitely more ability to constantly accelerate than those without.
All you are saying there is that they do shorter radius turns.... a fact which does not show that they are faster or that they keep gaining speed throughout the ride as implied in your first statement.
You are applying the term 'acceleration' ambiguously, that is the source of your problem.
Quote:
therefore, taylor knox accelerates for his entire ride, maybe more than any one on the planet, all other things being equal.
Mate you are totally confused !
Constantly turning is certainly constant acceleration, however it does not imply an increase in speed.
Your theory is akin to saying that a car keeps on going faster and faster if it is on a winding road.
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knox could never undergo the same level of acceleration (quantifiable as change in vector, speed, and g-forces produced0 on an olo than he does on the bonzer.
Wrong.
'Change in vector' and 'change in g force' does not imply an increase in speed.
The amount of rider energy which can be applied to surfboard propulsion by any rider is fixed, it won't lead to endless increases in speed.
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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Autoprax
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/24/11
Posts: 3133
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L,
Im confused by what you are trying to say. The fins will reduce acceleration?
Lets say you are right.
So is acceleration all we are concerned about when surfing?
Lets say we put your fin on and change the bottom, even if we gain speed, wont we lose handling characteristics?
If I want fast I will surf on my twinzer. I'm telling you right now my twinzer goes faster than my bonzer in gutless waves. That board will make speed where there is none. But as the surf gets more powerful do I need the board to generate speed for me?
If I am surfing a barreling reef pass do I need the speed of the twinzer when the wave is giving me the speed I need?
Don't other varibles come into play?
I'm not understanding you and I am trying.
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Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10001
Loc: The OC Life
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H_t nailed it and explains why I find riding a shortboard that can turn and hence accelerate and decelerate and have a much higher variable velocity so much more satisfying than riding a trim machine. acceleration in layman terms is the rate of change (ROC) of the velocity which we can model by a vector. the magnitude of this vector is the speed.
Now, when velocity changes e.g. increases and decreases we feel a force and what H_T calls g-forces, like when a jet banks hard and we feel the force. (not gonna go into normal and tangential compts of accel. etc.) large trim type of boards that surf further on the shoulder and away from the steep power source of the wave feel less force (which to us is fun fun) is that when in trim, the velocity is more or less constant hence you feel very little force.
it would be cool to take measurements of a shortboard rider and plot the velocity vectors (and accel.) including magnitude on the curve of their ride. I bet you can find a correlation to the stoke factor from the variability of the vecors and curvature of the path.
Havoc
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"motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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Quote:
L,
Im confused by what you are trying to say. The fins will reduce acceleration?
Lets say you are right.
I didn't say that.
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So is acceleration all we are concerned about when surfing?
It was HT who introduced acceleration to this topic, I was merely pointing out his errors in thinking.
Quote:
Lets say we put your fin on and change the bottom, even if we gain speed, wont we lose handling characteristics?
You'll change the handling characteristics.
Quote:
If I want fast I will surf on my twinzer. I'm telling you right now my twinzer goes faster than my bonzer in gutless waves. That board will make speed where there is none. But as the surf gets more powerful do I need the board to generate speed for me?
Ok and that depends.
Quote:
If I am surfing a barreling reef pass do I need the speed of the twinzer when the wave is giving me the speed I need?
Don't other varibles come into play?
I'm not understanding you and I am trying.
I was merely pointing out the major error in HT's thinking regarding acceleration, prior to that I criticised the curved channel on the bonzer and said that I like the board but would remove the channel and put a tunnel on it if it were mine.
That's all.
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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juan_guzman
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/20/08
Posts: 3498
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Quote:
PLEASE TAKE PHYSICS 101
any change in speed or direction IS acceleration.
Yes of course but that includes slowing down or turning !
I doubt if that's what you meant by 'accelerating throughout the ride'
My 2 cents: your assumption = false. Also, you were on a thread a few years ago where HT went through that whole semantic discussion.
G-loadings are fun. Theyre not the only fun in surfing but they are fun. I personally think longboarding and your surfing lack sufficient opportunities to make them worthwhile. But that's just, like, my opinion.
You admit you assumed a premise and you were corrected on his intent and you still go on. And on. 
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"Obviously, you've never chopped broccoli."
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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Quote:
You admit you assumed a premise and you were corrected on his intent and you still go on. And on.
Incorrect.
HT's ramblings are incoherent so if one is to reply one must attempt to interpret them.
He was comparing 'terminal velocity' with 'constant acceleration'..... by doing so one can deduce that he was necessarily referring to acceleration applied to the goal of increasing velocity, rather than just acceleration as oscillating speed with direction changes.
In the two videos posted, the shortboard ridden by Taylor Knox would not have ridden the waves I was riding, but my 17 would have ridden the waves TK was riding.
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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hallucinogenic_toreador
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 5957
Loc: socal beachbreak barrels
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Quote:
Quote:
PLEASE TAKE PHYSICS 101
any change in speed or direction IS acceleration.
Yes of course but that includes slowing down or turning !
I doubt if that's what you meant by 'accelerating throughout the ride'
Quote:
hence, faster turns, with tighter arcs, equal greater acceleration.
You are confused.
You claimed that Taylor Knox on the bonzer would be accelerating throughout the ride whereas the olo would reach a 'terminal velocity', and that the bonzer would therefore go faster.
Unfortunately acceleration as defined by yourself i.e. including slowing down and changes in direction does not entail a higher speed.
All you are really saying is that he jerks his board around a lot, an obvious fact which does not demonstrate greater speed.
If you were indeed trying to say in your confused way that the bonzer rider will acclerate throughout the ride i.e. will keep gaining speed throughout the ride then that is highly unlikely, and I can show you why if you like.
Quote:
acceleration is anything that produces "g-forces". short boards with toed fins have infinitely more ability to constantly accelerate than those without.
All you are saying there is that they do shorter radius turns.... a fact which does not show that they are faster or that they keep gaining speed throughout the ride as implied in your first statement.
You are applying the term 'acceleration' ambiguously, that is the source of your problem.
Quote:
therefore, taylor knox accelerates for his entire ride, maybe more than any one on the planet, all other things being equal.
Mate you are totally confused !
Constantly turning is certainly constant acceleration, however it does not imply an increase in speed.
Your theory is akin to saying that a car keeps on going faster and faster if it is on a winding road.
Quote:
knox could never undergo the same level of acceleration (quantifiable as change in vector, speed, and g-forces produced0 on an olo than he does on the bonzer.
Wrong.
'Change in vector' and 'change in g force' does not imply an increase in speed.
The amount of rider energy which can be applied to surfboard propulsion by any rider is fixed, it won't lead to endless increases in speed.
.
you've been schooled.
i used the term "acceleration" according to the definition, and it is EXACTLY what i meant about toed-in fins allowing you to accelerate constantly.
this is what's fun for most people - you know, pulling Gs! constant acceleration, changing speed AND direction, constantly, as fast and hard as you can!
you are the guy using the "acceleration" incorrectly and incompletely.
and yes, acceleration does include braking and slowing down. nothing, NOTHING, beats being able to do a hard tube stall in the pocket when your going way too fast, when you are coming off a steep drop and hard bottom turn, redirecting into the hook in order to pull back into the barrel, snapping, even doing a "wheelie" to slow down fast, with control, then being able to set the rail in the tube, and start accelerating again to chase down the exit from the barrel.
thrusters do this exceptionally well, with more acceleration, and in a shorter period of time than you will ever experience on an olo. period.
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"...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
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juan_guzman
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/20/08
Posts: 3498
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Quote:
A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
Horseshit. Here's the quote: "i've always wondered if roy just stops at speed (distance over time), or whether he considers the fact that acceleration (change in speed and/or direction) plays a big factor in most surfer's pursuit of fun when riding waves."
Your argument is based on a factual error or deliberate misstatement. 
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"Obviously, you've never chopped broccoli."
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hallucinogenic_toreador
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 5957
Loc: socal beachbreak barrels
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Quote:
Quote:
A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
Horseshit. Here's the quote: "i've always wondered if roy just stops at speed (distance over time), or whether he considers the fact that acceleration (change in speed and/or direction) plays a big factor in most surfer's pursuit of fun when riding waves."
Your argument is based on a factual error or deliberate misstatement.
now you need to take physics 101.
ACCELERATION is any change in speed OR direction. period. that is the DEFINITION!!!
what makes surfing fun for the vast majority of us is the fact that toed-in fins add great vector control.
good grief
a surfer who is constantly turning is constantly accelerating! whether its a long turn, short turn, any turn. you cannot turn without accelerating! it is absolutely impossible, by definition!
what was knox doing, constantly turning, therefore, by definition, constantly accelerating! sheesh!
i used the term EXACTLY according to the definition, which is EXACTLY what i meant.
in the video of taylor knox, for example, he is constantly accelerating for the duration of his rides! that's what's fun!
you guys do not understand the term acceleration (there is no such thing as "deceleration" in classical physic terms - ALL changes in either speed, or direction, is ACCELERATION, even if its braking)!
i am sorry that you both use the term incorrectly. perhaps if you take physics 101, you will understand what acceleration is. if you ever do a good turn, at high speed on rail, perhaps you will understand in practice, as well as theory, why toed-in fins are so fun...BECAUSE THEY ALLOW FOR THE SURFER TO CONSTANTLY ACCELERATE, AND AT HIGH LEVELS!
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"...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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All you mean by 'acceleration' in this context is 'turning'.
It was stupid of you therefore to compare 'constant acceleration' ( i.e. turning) with 'terminal velocity' because all you are doing is comparing turning with terminal velocity, which makes no sense.
So the bottom line remains: namely that you have used a couple of pages to say that Taylor Knox turns a lot. . . why didn't you just say so?
I'll tell you why, and the clue is in your comparison of 'constant acceleration' with 'terminal velocity'. . . you were trying to say that turning all the time makes Taylor Knox go faster.
If you weren't saying that then all you were doing was saying that he constantly turns.
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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juan_guzman
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/20/08
Posts: 3498
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
Horseshit. Here's the quote: "i've always wondered if roy just stops at speed (distance over time), or whether he considers the fact that acceleration (change in speed and/or direction) plays a big factor in most surfer's pursuit of fun when riding waves."
Your argument is based on a factual error or deliberate misstatement.
now you need to take physics 101.
ACCELERATION is any change in speed OR direction. period. that is the DEFINITION!!!
what makes surfing fun for the vast majority of us is the fact that toed-in fins add great vector control.
good grief
a surfer who is constantly turning is constantly accelerating! whether its a long turn, short turn, any turn. you cannot turn without accelerating! it is absolutely impossible, by definition!
what was knox doing, constantly turning, therefore, by definition, constantly accelerating! sheesh!
i used the term EXACTLY according to the definition, which is EXACTLY what i meant.
in the video of taylor knox, for example, he is constantly accelerating for the duration of his rides! that's what's fun!
you guys do not understand the term acceleration (there is no such thing as "deceleration" in classical physic terms - ALL changes in either speed, or direction, is ACCELERATION, even if its braking)!
i am sorry that you both use the term incorrectly. perhaps if you take physics 101, you will understand what acceleration is. if you ever do a good turn, at high speed on rail, perhaps you will understand in practice, as well as theory, why toed-in fins are so fun...BECAUSE THEY ALLOW FOR THE SURFER TO CONSTANTLY ACCELERATE, AND AT HIGH LEVELS!
I was agreeing with you + I was replying to Roy?
You silly, man.  
BTW I know about toed-in fins and why theyre good for performance surfing. 
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"Obviously, you've never chopped broccoli."
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Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10001
Loc: The OC Life
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Quote:
A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
actually, even if the velocity is held constant, when turning a board you feel force (H_T's G-force) in the normal direction to the arc of your turn. simple calculus that the normal component of acceleration is proportional to curvature of the path you are taking. Thus, in theory you can still pull G-forces by turning a tighter arc despite running the same constant velocity. It is what it is. When you turn, it's fun! plain and simple!
Olo-Out!
Havoc
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"motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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Quote:
Quote:
A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
actually, even if the velocity is held constant, when turning a board you feel force (H_T's G-force) in the normal direction to the arc of your turn. simple calculus that the normal component of acceleration is proportional to curvature of the path you are taking. Thus, in theory you can still pull G-forces by turning a tighter arc despite running the same constant velocity. It is what it is. When you turn, it's fun! plain and simple!
Olo-Out!
Havoc
Yes of course but when calling turning acceleration and then saying that it's therefore faster than 'terminal velocity' the person is deliberately (IMO ) posting ambiguously in a way which tries to spread misinformation, namely that turning constantly increases speed constantly. . . . . there's no other explanation for the 'apples and pears' statements made by HT.
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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juan_guzman
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/20/08
Posts: 3498
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Quote:
Quote:
A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
actually, even if the velocity is held constant, when turning a board you feel force (H_T's G-force) in the normal direction to the arc of your turn. simple calculus that the normal component of acceleration is proportional to curvature of the path you are taking. Thus, in theory you can still pull G-forces by turning a tighter arc despite running the same constant velocity. It is what it is. When you turn, it's fun! plain and simple!
Olo-Out!
Havoc
That works all the time in real life -- swingsets, ice skating spins, decreasing radius curves on the road, halfpipes, lots of turns in surfing.
Here's the junk on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration
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"Obviously, you've never chopped broccoli."
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Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10001
Loc: The OC Life
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
actually, even if the velocity is held constant, when turning a board you feel force (H_T's G-force) in the normal direction to the arc of your turn. simple calculus that the normal component of acceleration is proportional to curvature of the path you are taking. Thus, in theory you can still pull G-forces by turning a tighter arc despite running the same constant velocity. It is what it is. When you turn, it's fun! plain and simple!
Olo-Out!
Havoc
That works all the time in real life -- swingsets, ice skating spins, decreasing radius curves on the road, halfpipes, top-turn reverses.
Here's the junk on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration
yup, that's right! why carving up a canyon in a sportscar is super fun. why going from 0-60 in 4.5 sec's is more fun than going 0-60 in 18 secs. Point is, you can feel the force due to acceleration in a straight line provided your velocity is variable and if it is constant in magnitude (i.e. constant speed) you can still feel acceleration (force) during a hard turn.
there you go, in mathematical and physical terms why turns are always fun!
Stay Olo my friends!
Havoc
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"motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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Haha the acceleration which reduces speed. .. the resident hallucinator thinks it's going to make the board go faster than terminal velocity.... tell those skydivers to start flapping !
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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juan_guzman
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/20/08
Posts: 3498
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F u c k o f f k o o k.
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"Obviously, you've never chopped broccoli."
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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Rarked !!
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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ElOgro
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
Reged: 12/03/10
Posts: 8811
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Quote:
F u c k o f f k o o k.
I've been waiting for that for a while.
Nice board Sharkie. It looks, for lack of a better description, fun.
Roy, Roy, Roy. I swear to Jebus you just don't get that some people can enjoy a board with characteristics that lend to the rider's ability to maneuver it into the most critical part of the wave. What you're doing is comparable to riding a soap box derby car straight down a bunny slope with a scoutmaster timing you with the second hand on his mickey mouse watch. In short, 2D. If that's what you like, well fine. Some of us enjoy experiencing surfing in 3D, or in short, adjusting the position of the board to fit the situation dictated by the wave.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just "different".
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"That's their respect for me... I got leid," Rabbit Kekai
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juan_guzman
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/20/08
Posts: 3498
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Quote:
Rarked !!
Not even. Your shtick is the vomit of a drug addict. Beneath contempt. Not deserving of the attention you get. I couldnt care less. Youre graffiti. But all that said, f u c k o f f you f u c k i n g c u n t.
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"Obviously, you've never chopped broccoli."
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hallucinogenic_toreador
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 5957
Loc: socal beachbreak barrels
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Quote:
Quote:
A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
actually, even if the velocity is held constant, when turning a board you feel force (H_T's G-force) in the normal direction to the arc of your turn. simple calculus that the normal component of acceleration is proportional to curvature of the path you are taking. Thus, in theory you can still pull G-forces by turning a tighter arc despite running the same constant velocity. It is what it is. When you turn, it's fun! plain and simple!
Olo-Out!
Havoc
Yes of course but when calling turning acceleration and then saying that it's therefore faster than 'terminal velocity' the person is deliberately (IMO ) posting ambiguously in a way which tries to spread misinformation, namely that turning constantly increases speed constantly. . . . . there's no other explanation for the 'apples and pears' statements made by HT.
don't blame ME for YOUR failure to understand the definition of ACCELERATION, which is any change in SPEED OR any change in DIRECTION!
just because you fail to acknowledge that a change in direction IS acceleration, and just because your failure to understand the term, or the implications of the physical phenomenon it describes, in its entireity, and therefore the fact that you then completely mis-interpreted my remarks because of your incomplete understanding, does not mean you get to say I was saying something i WAS NOT.
i did not, and never did intend, to say that a board with toed-in fins, or that taylor knox in the video posted, continued to gain speed for the entire ride. that's non-sensical.
as i said originally, toed-in fins allow you to accelerate constantly on a wave, because they allow you to constantly turn, bank, change direction, speed up, slow down, match the speed of the pocket, outrun the pocket, turn back into the pocket, etc., as demonstrated so superbly by knox.
don't put your one-dimensional and incomplete understanding of basic physics on me.
there's not one statement that i made that isn't understood to be true, and consistent with the laws of physics.
on top of that, most of us like to turn, therefore, it is the acceleration that we find so fun in surfing, and the greater the acceleration, and more instances of it, the more fun we have.
a strong argument can be made that the best surfers in the world are the ones that are best at vector control; they can accelerate at higher levels (i.e., pull more g's through change in speed AND change in direction) and do so more often, over the course of a ride, than any other surfers on the planet.
knox is a prime example. the forces that compress him against his board, and which he can continue to push against, are the forces of acceleration (i.e, g-forces). he can maintain control under higher acceleration, at higher g-force levels, whether its a long arc at high speed, or tight arc at lower speeds, than just about anyone on the planet. toed-in fins are a HUGE benefit in this pursuit.
go back to school.
tunnel fins are stupid.
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"...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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Quote:
Quote:
Rarked !!
Not even. Your shtick is the vomit of a drug addict. Beneath contempt. Not deserving of the attention you get. I couldnt care less. Youre graffiti. But all that said, f u c k o f f you f u c k i n g c u n t.
Your finest moment. . .
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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Quote:
don't blame ME for YOUR failure to understand the definition of ACCELERATION, which is any change in SPEED OR any change in DIRECTION!
just because you fail to acknowledge that a change in direction IS acceleration, and just because your failure to understand the term, or the implications of the physical phenomenon it describes, in its entireity, and therefore the fact that you then completely mis-interpreted my remarks because of your incomplete understanding, does not mean you get to say I was saying something i WAS NOT.
i did not, and never did intend, to say that a board with toed-in fins, or that taylor knox in the video posted, continued to gain speed for the entire ride. that's non-sensical.
as i said originally, toed-in fins allow you to accelerate constantly on a wave, because they allow you to constantly turn, bank, change direction, speed up, slow down, match the speed of the pocket, outrun the pocket, turn back into the pocket, etc., as demonstrated so superbly by knox.
don't put your one-dimensional and incomplete understanding of basic physics on me.
there's not one statement that i made that isn't understood to be true, and consistent with the laws of physics.
on top of that, most of us like to turn, therefore, it is the acceleration that we find so fun in surfing, and the greater the acceleration, and more instances of it, the more fun we have.
a strong argument can be made that the best surfers in the world are the ones that are best at vector control; they can accelerate at higher levels (i.e., pull more g's through change in speed AND change in direction) and do so more often, over the course of a ride, than any other surfers on the planet.
knox is a prime example. the forces that compress him against his board, and which he can continue to push against, are the forces of acceleration (i.e, g-forces). he can maintain control under higher acceleration, at higher g-force levels, whether its a long arc at high speed, or tight arc at lower speeds, than just about anyone on the planet. toed-in fins are HUGE benefit in this pursuit.
go back to school.
tunnel fins are stupid.
So why did you say that taylor knox will accelerate throughout the ride which is better than my board which reaches terminal velocity ?
You were comparing 'apples and pears' and the comparison only makes sense if one is comparing speed and acceleration down the line, it makes no sense at all if one is merely talking about turning.
Yor inane babbling is an example of a smattering of education leading to a false sense of importance.
In addition going into this spastic shortboard apologetics binge as you have, reminds me of the saying that 'The lady protesteth too much'
Bottom line is Taylor is just a baby jumping up and down in his car seat thinking that he's getting there faster because of it while the adults groove on the view and listen to mind elevating music.
Thrashing one's board up and down unecessarily is a form of public masturbation, but each to their own.
If you calm down I'll read you this story about Kelly's 'wasteland years'
http://olosurfer-woodensurfboardsatpipel...p-on-magic.html
"If unconfirmed rumours coming out of Cocoa Beach, Florida are to be believed King Kelly has taken an axe to his entire quiver on seeing video of Roy's exploits and now refers to his record-breaking ten world titles as "the wasteland years". Frankly, who can blame him? "
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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FresnoRipper
Billy Hamilton status
Reged: 08/25/02
Posts: 1480
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This thread started out beautiful (pics of Mini Bonzer), then quickly deteriorated into the abortion it is now.
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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Yeah it's all the fault of those channels.
In other respects it's a pretty board.
Come to think of it the channels aren't too bad either
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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hallucinogenic_toreador
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 5957
Loc: socal beachbreak barrels
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Quote:
So why did you say that taylor knox will accelerate throughout the ride which is better than my board which reaches terminal velocity ?
You were comparing 'apples and pears' and the comparison only makes sense if one is comparing speed and acceleration down the line, it makes no sense at all if one is merely talking about turning.
Yor inane babbling is an example of a smattering of education leading to a false sense of importance.
In addition going into this spastic shortboard apologetics binge as you have, reminds me of the saying that 'The lady protesteth too much'
Bottom line is Taylor is just a baby jumping up and down in his car seat thinking that he's getting there faster because of it while the adults groove on the view and listen to mind elevating music.
Thrashing one's board up and down unecessarily is a form of public masturbation, but each to their own.
If you calm down I'll read you this story about Kelly's 'wasteland years'
its apples to apples.
lets say that you ride the exact same wave - a wave of exactly equal size, interval, power, shape, and at the same exact break, as taylor knox; you on an olo, and taylor on a bonzer.
if you were to plot the total ground distance covered, taylor would have you by a mile, yet you would both start at the same takeoff spot, end at the same channel or wave termination location in the same amount of time.
knox will have had much higher average speed compared to you, because speed is time over distance! knox will have undergone constant acceleration, will have taken a more winding path from point A to point B, yet will arrive in the exact same location, after starting at the exact same location, and do so in the same amount of time!
who went faster? knox. your path was mostly straight, his was curved and winding. speed is distance over time. you both surfed a wave for the identical amount of time, yet knox turned up, down, sped down the line, cut all the way back to the curl, then sped down the line, then dropped way down the face, then turned straight back up the face, over and over. you basically trimmed, with slight adjustments to speed and direction. knox had large changes in both speed and direction - in fact, his roundhouse cutbacks allowed him to cover some of the same ground virtually twice!
i said that knox accelerates constantly over the course of the ride, whereas your olo gets up to speed, and then pretty much just goes along - minimal changes in speed or direction. that's a single instance of acceleration, then little thereafter.
the olo's turns are slight, don't generate much in terms of g-force, and hence, the level of acceleration is low by comparison to a good rider on a shortboard, accelerating hard, compressing his body through long, high speed turns, or exploding through short punching turns that change speed and direction instantly, then pumps back to speed to match the vector of the peeling wave.
if you were to measure acceleration, quantitatively via accelerometer, over the course of a ride between you on your olo, and taylor knox on a bonzer, it would put you to shame. i would wager that knox's acceleration on a shortboard with toed-in fins, in quantifiable terms, would exceed yours by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE!
you make nice wave riding canoes, with superb wood-working skills. your knowledge of physics and fluid dynamics is below high school level.
the bonzer looks like a really fun board, i'd like to try a bonzer one of these days.
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"...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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Quote:
lets say that you ride the exact same wave - a wave of exactly equal size, power, and at the same exact break - as taylor knox. you on an olo, and taylor on a bonzer.
It's a loaded example because it assumes that Taylor was able to make the wave.
Next...
Quote:
if you were to plot the total ground distance covered, taylor would have you by a mile, yet you would both start at the same takeoff spot, end at the same channel or wave termination location in the same amount of time.
Highly questionable as you once again assume that Taylor was able to make the wave.
Even if it played out as described so what ? It's just inefficiency of motion having to jump up and down to get to the same place as someone else who does it with less effort.
Quote:
knox will have had much higher average speed compared to you, because speed is time over distance
If he waves his arms about some more you could add that on to the ride with your post surf slide rule and claim a victory of inefficiency.
Quote:
who went faster? knox. your path was mostly straight, his was curved and winding. speed is distance over time.
Mate, it didn't happen.
In reality we don't know that Taylor would even make the wave.
Quote:
i said that knox accelerates constantly over the course of the ride, whereas your olo gets up to speed, and then pretty much just goes along - minimal changes in speed or direction. that's a single instance of acceleration, then little thereafter.
Absolutely incorrect based on a fictitious example designed to prove the theory it is supposed to be testing
It's a circular argument, you don't seem to be able to distinguish between reality and fantasy.
I've analysed tracks, and i know that what you are saying isn't true.
Quote:
the olo's turns are slight
Here we enter the dim world of 'how long is a piece of string'
The olo does all turns which are necessary to make the wave, and turns through 180 degrees when required.
If that's 'minimal' then we have to say that minimal = functional.
Quote:
, don't generate much in terms of g-force, and hence, the level of acceleration is low by comparison to a good rider on a shortboard, accelerating hard, compressing his body through long, high speed turns, or exploding through short punching turns that change speed and direction instantly, then pumps back to speed to match the vector of the peeling wave.
More jumping around to achieve what can be done with far less effort.
In reality acceleration is useful for increases in velocity for section making and staying on the wave, going around in circles is just useless flapping. . .and heavier olo boards accelerate faster and reach higher speeds in many surf conditions than shortboards do.
Quote:
if you were to measure acceleration, quantitatively via accelerometer, over the course of a ride between you on your olo, and taylor knox on a bonzer, it would put you to shame. i would wager that knox's acceleration on a shortboard with toed-in fins, in quantifiable terms, would exceed yours by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE!
Whatever mate, you could also get world beating acceleration in your car by driving it at full speed into a cliff but it would be meaningless as a means of travelling via gaining velocity . . . and you are still assuming that taylor made the wave, while I'm still wondering if he was able to catch it !
By the way as pointed out previously Kelly Slater et al at Snapper in waves which were better than what I was surfing in my tests couldn't get within 10mph of my speeds.
.
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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njsurfer42
Gerry Lopez status
Reged: 03/16/06
Posts: 1335
Loc: south jersey
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Quote:
It's a loaded example because it assumes that Taylor was able to make the wave.
idiot! you have to make certain assumptions when discussing theoretical experiments! back to general science you go...
Quote:
...you don't seem to be able to distinguish between reality and fantasy.
so how's the kettle, roy? still black?
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it's surf-related b/c i surf!
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GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32257
Loc: Dustopia
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All I know is yesterday, riding that bottom, I got a fairly large air on a 4 foot wave. Pumping that bitch down the line to build speed felt  . And I know that is no big deal for some of you, but uh... getting 200 plus pounds of fifty plus year old man to escape velocity in a small mushy wave... sure seemed like something was working to me.  (And no, I didn't land it  )
I'm sure if I read all this, I'd discover that it wasn't really working, so, I think I'll just skip it and go surfing again.
Ignorance is bliss.
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Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
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averagejoe
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/28/08
Posts: 3390
Loc: santa cruz
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Quote:
All I know is yesterday, riding that bottom, I got a fairly large air on a 4 foot wave. Pumping that bitch down the line to build speed felt . And I know that is no big deal for some of you, but uh... getting 200 plus pounds of fifty plus year old man to escape velocity in a small mushy wave... sure seemed like something was working to me. (And no, I didn't land it )
I'm sure if I read all this, I'd discover that it wasn't really working, so, I think I'll just skip it and go surfing again.
Ignorance is bliss.
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6' 165 lbs 40 yrs old and i hate thrusters
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rowjimmytour
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 02/06/09
Posts: 2459
Loc: GOLETATHEGOODLAND
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Quote:
Quote:
All I know is yesterday, riding that bottom, I got a fairly large air on a 4 foot wave. Pumping that bitch down the line to build speed felt . And I know that is no big deal for some of you, but uh... getting 200 plus pounds of fifty plus year old man to escape velocity in a small mushy wave... sure seemed like something was working to me. (And no, I didn't land it )
I'm sure if I read all this, I'd discover that it wasn't really working, so, I think I'll just skip it and go surfing again.
Ignorance is bliss.
+1 minus the mushy waves  Just got back from a 2 night three day camp trip up North and all I packed was 5 fin bonzers. First day I surfed my rp 5'6" bumblebee w/ sets OH+ and it handled like a race car but the rip getting out was a bitch. I really wanted to try the semi gun I scored at the end of last winter from Motosurf so I brought my 7'1" out for afternoon low tide session w/ swell building Scored some great lefts on this board but never got to go right and yes the rights were good this swell at the river mouth. Fifth gear for sure and would love to trade my quiver in for all bonzers but spice is life so for now I will have two
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Gotta find a woman be good to me
Won't hide my liquor try to serve me tea
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2522
Loc: New Zealand
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Quote:
Quote:
It's a loaded example because it assumes that Taylor was able to make the wave.
idiot! you have to make certain assumptions when discussing theoretical experiments! back to general science you go...
When the assumption is based on an answer to the question which is being asked, then the question is circular and the thought experiment is bankrupt... as in this case.
You therefore are the idiot !
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www.roystuart.biz @Roy_Stuart_NZ
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Ivan_
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 12/16/10
Posts: 1865
Loc: Cabo, Mexico
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I like how all this arguing is a dead end 
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Cabo!
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GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32257
Loc: Dustopia
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Quote:
I like how all this arguing is a dead end
Is not.
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Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
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averagejoe
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/28/08
Posts: 3390
Loc: santa cruz
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Quote:
Quote:
I like how all this arguing is a dead end
Is not.
Is too
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6' 165 lbs 40 yrs old and i hate thrusters
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GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32257
Loc: Dustopia
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I like how all this arguing is a dead end
Is not.
Is too
Nuh uh.
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Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
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Retropete
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 01/20/06
Posts: 1808
Loc: Sunny Coast Qld Australia
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"Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour"?
"I told you once."
"no, you didn't."
"Yes, I did."
"No, you didn't."
"Yes, I did."
"Look, this is stupid. This is not an argument. This is just the automatic gainsaying of everything I say."
"No, it's not."
A less than accurate recollection of Monty Python's argument sketch.
No, it wasn't.
Yes, it was...
Someone please find it on You tube and post it up for all the young whippersnappers to enjoy.
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Caution: Excessive Kool aid consumption may result in a bitter aftertaste.
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Ivan_
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 12/16/10
Posts: 1865
Loc: Cabo, Mexico
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I find it pointless that Roy never seems to show us what his knowledge can do for shortboards and its pointless to ask for it cause apparently he never will
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Cabo!
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Pissbiscuit
Gerry Lopez status
Reged: 06/25/08
Posts: 1166
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Quote:
I find it pointless that Roy never seems to show us what his knowledge can do for shortboards and its pointless to ask for it cause apparently he never will
Hopefully someone who makes their own bodyboards solely for Keiki or Sandys will pollute threads by pointing out that unnecessary movement (standing) to pursue an unnecessary goal (riding makeable waves) is not functional, and that using the word 'fins' (create thrust, ie swimfins) when you mean 'skegs' (create drag) is ${insertInsult}.
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