Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
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flat water in clean smooth surface, through chop, and through whitewater wash on the inside?
I think foam distribution has a lot to do with it as well as volume but too much volume can also hinder it. template and bottom contours as well.
wish I could talk to a shaper about this.
i have a few boards that don't paddle that well but catch waves very easily and surf well. just tiring getting back out on extended paddles.
i have some that paddle insanely well but don't catch waves that easily also. tough to nail both i guess. also material and construction probably play an important role.
wow, this is a design related question in the design forum! cool!
 
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"motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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saltyNuts
Gerry Lopez status
Reged: 04/05/11
Posts: 1173
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In surfing, Ive learned you have to sacrifice something to gain something else. Whatever the happy medium is I go with that.
But, you should really try some on-it pro Xtreme cream on the bottom deck. It helps heaps for my poor paddle skills. Been using the open finger technique with my arms 45'd from the tip of my nose through to the waist area. been working pretty good..
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retodd
Tom Curren status
Reged: 02/22/09
Posts: 11174
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big fat single concaves with the rails acting like pontoons seam to be the most effective regardless of conditions
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Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
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Quote:
big fat single concaves with the rails acting like pontoons seam to be the most effective regardless of conditions
this! also, polys with a bit more glass seem to keep some glide though chop. man, as saltynuts said, need to work on technique more also. eps+epoxy gets any minimal glide it has taken away once theres some chop.
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"motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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retodd
Tom Curren status
Reged: 02/22/09
Posts: 11174
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good point with the polly , the heavy ones need to be longer to get the glide .
short heavy polly = 
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jbullock
Grom
Reged: 04/08/12
Posts: 59
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nose concave is good for catching waves,it seems a concave deck makes it hard to catc waves but its good when on the wave a flat bottom is the fastest surface for paddling but tends to be hard on your turns unless you have legs simalar to Arnold schwartzanegger.Im talking thruster right now,depends if its a twin quad or GG five fin.
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PartyBoy
Nep status
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 937
Loc: under the keg
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A paddle or a jet engine and of course as many fins as possible.
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ciscojaws
Nep status
Reged: 07/28/08
Posts: 813
Loc: San Diego
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Quote:
In surfing, Ive learned you have to sacrifice something to gain something else. Whatever the happy medium is I go with that.
When I ordered my first custom this is what my shaper, Ted Kearns basically said. Moving wide point forward increases paddlability, but is harder to turn. This was in the 90's so slayers and rock ups weren't developed quite yet...
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silentbutdeadly
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 11616
Loc: Tower 13
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My most high performance boards don't seem to paddle for chit except for when it matters. I don't know what makes them go. Single concave is a general theme though.
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Thou shall not commit adulthood
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Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
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one of the best paddling boards for me was a heavily glassed speed dialer at my height w/ more foam.
guess it is all a trade off. some boards paddle well at the bgeinning of the session then get more difficult as I get tired. some paddle almost as well at the end as at the beginning. foam is your friend but distribution is also key and needs to be in tune w/ rocker and template.
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"motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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000
Tom Curren status
Reged: 02/20/03
Posts: 14790
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aLL THE exact DESIGN ELEMENTS OF A PADDLEBOARD
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Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
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Quote:
aLL THE exact DESIGN ELEMENTS OF A PADDLEBOARD
this. generally longer narrower paddles better in flat water. how's about through chop and moving water?
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"motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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kellsmith
Miki Dora status
Reged: 04/18/11
Posts: 3711
Loc: South Bay
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nothing paddles well thru whitewash 
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The glide shall not be truncated 
- roy
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retodd
Tom Curren status
Reged: 02/22/09
Posts: 11174
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Quote:
Quote:
aLL THE exact DESIGN ELEMENTS OF A PADDLEBOARD
this. generally longer narrower paddles better in flat water. how's about through chop and moving water?
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Greg Griffin
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 10/31/04
Posts: 6779
Loc: Sunset Point, Hawaii
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Please explain further on this . 
"a flat bottom is the fastest surface for paddling but tends to be hard on your turns unless you have legs simalar to Arnold schwartzanegger.Im talking thruster right now,depends if its a twin quad or GG five fin. "
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www.griffinsurfboards.com
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toddo
Legend (inyourownmind)
Reged: 07/24/10
Posts: 199
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something like this paddles well.
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Greg Griffin
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 10/31/04
Posts: 6779
Loc: Sunset Point, Hawaii
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What makes a normal size shortboard paddle better ?
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www.griffinsurfboards.com
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jbullock
Grom
Reged: 04/08/12
Posts: 59
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well GG a twin thats flat to slight V works insane when fins are placed at 8 1/4 from tail dont need nothing els and a quad with the fins set at 7 from tail(back fin)and 12 inch from tail (front fin) is magic on flat or slight belly to spiral V Im talking slight,concaved quads the fins seem to work good aroun 6 3/4 and 11 3/4.My earlyer shapes were flat bottom fast down the line but left much to be desired never did much experimenting with the five fins always seemed like to much fin Im a minimalist I like simple. I shape concaves and dont do to much fin shaping thats why i like unconcaved fins for this reason.do the five fins work good with flat bottom dont know.every shaper rides there boardes and figures out what they can.havnt heard you theory on it please tell me id love to know.
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jbullock
Grom
Reged: 04/08/12
Posts: 59
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Quote:
What makes a normal size shortboard paddle better ?
I bet a board whith a dome deck (not to much dome) just enough to hide thickness and nice thin rails with nose concave you could be stoked .could be wrong try it and see.
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need 4 speed
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 2686
Loc: SoCal
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Good to see you back on the board Jacob
I've been riding GG 5 fins for a little while now I have found that they work very well for me.
I too was skeptical when I first saw them I think 5 years ago or so.My first thought was way too much fin.I rode a demo(that was a bit too small for) and was blown away.Ordered shortly after and have been through several now I have found the drive and release perfect for my style(or lack there of)
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NOT THAT KIND
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jbullock
Grom
Reged: 04/08/12
Posts: 59
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hey need4 speed how are ya, maybe we could paddle when i come down ill try the board if youll let me Im open minded see what all the hype is ill be gentile.
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indodreams
Legend (inyourownmind)
Reged: 03/25/11
Posts: 298
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Quote:
flat water in clean smooth surface, through chop, and through whitewater wash on the inside?
I think foam distribution has a lot to do with it as well as volume but too much volume can also hinder it. template and bottom contours as well.
wish I could talk to a shaper about this.
i have a few boards that don't paddle that well but catch waves very easily and surf well. just tiring getting back out on extended paddles.
i have some that paddle insanely well but don't catch waves that easily also. tough to nail both i guess. also material and construction probably play an important role.
wow, this is a design related question in the design forum! cool!
Why can't you talk to your shaper about this?
Rockers and important factor, boards with little rocker paddle easy, boards with heaps of rocker dont paddle as good.
long narrow boards with F all rocker paddle good and short wide boards with a decent amount of foam and F all rocker paddle good.
Put to much rocker(especially like we saw in early 90's, like boards shane herring was ridding in either and there hard to paddle.
Edited by indodreams (04/13/12 12:06 AM)
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Greg Griffin
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 10/31/04
Posts: 6779
Loc: Sunset Point, Hawaii
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Nose concave increases entry angle .
Flat surface planes best of all at low speeds - paddle speed .
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www.griffinsurfboards.com
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need 4 speed
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 2686
Loc: SoCal
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That would not be a problem,although mine are far to big for you.I'd like to see you ride one properly sized for you
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NOT THAT KIND
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donniedarko
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 07/26/04
Posts: 1989
Loc: The Coast
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good entry rocker. blackbox is a good example. my 2cts
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face the mirror...
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Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
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Quote:
Quote:
flat water in clean smooth surface, through chop, and through whitewater wash on the inside?
I think foam distribution has a lot to do with it as well as volume but too much volume can also hinder it. template and bottom contours as well.
wish I could talk to a shaper about this.
i have a few boards that don't paddle that well but catch waves very easily and surf well. just tiring getting back out on extended paddles.
i have some that paddle insanely well but don't catch waves that easily also. tough to nail both i guess. also material and construction probably play an important role.
wow, this is a design related question in the design forum! cool!
Why can't you talk to your shaper about this?
Rockers and important factor, boards with little rocker paddle easy, boards with heaps of rocker dont paddle as good.
long narrow boards with F all rocker paddle good and short wide boards with a decent amount of foam and F all rocker paddle good.
Put to much rocker(especially like we saw in early 90's, like boards shane herring was ridding in either and there hard to paddle.
you're as clueless about board design as you are about materials.
yeah I know ur answer, firewires paddle better than wavejets and SUP's
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"motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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indodreams
Legend (inyourownmind)
Reged: 03/25/11
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
flat water in clean smooth surface, through chop, and through whitewater wash on the inside?
I think foam distribution has a lot to do with it as well as volume but too much volume can also hinder it. template and bottom contours as well.
wish I could talk to a shaper about this.
i have a few boards that don't paddle that well but catch waves very easily and surf well. just tiring getting back out on extended paddles.
i have some that paddle insanely well but don't catch waves that easily also. tough to nail both i guess. also material and construction probably play an important role.
wow, this is a design related question in the design forum! cool!
Why can't you talk to your shaper about this?
Rockers and important factor, boards with little rocker paddle easy, boards with heaps of rocker dont paddle as good.
long narrow boards with F all rocker paddle good and short wide boards with a decent amount of foam and F all rocker paddle good.
Put to much rocker(especially like we saw in early 90's, like boards shane herring was ridding in either and there hard to paddle.
you're as clueless about board design as you are about materials.
yeah I know ur answer, firewires paddle better than wavejets and SUP's
Ouch, While it would be easy to write you off with the same type of negative comment, im not going too waste my time writing people off i know little about.
You don't agree about my comments about rocker? discuss if you dont.
No need to just write me off, i think my comments are very valid and on topic.
Take a short wide stubby board design like a gravy, biscuit even dare i mention sweet potatoe, two big reasons they have little rocker one because if they didn't they wouldn't plane like they do and you would find it very hard to get speed, and plane through flat sections plus you would also find it harder to catch waves and paddle, if that wasn't true they would be great with a little more rocker, because even though these boards go great in certain conditions they often dont surf good in the pocket on steep sections as they dont fit into the curve of the wave and a little more rocker would be great for this aspect.
Perhaps you never went through the early 90's period when boards with heaps of rocker were the go.
Asume i hit a nerve asking why you can't talk to your shaper about this as you did state "wish I could talk to a shaper about this" your words....
im suprised you can't as from previous post i thought you were fairly involved with shaper.
Edited by indodreams (04/13/12 03:34 PM)
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Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
flat water in clean smooth surface, through chop, and through whitewater wash on the inside?
I think foam distribution has a lot to do with it as well as volume but too much volume can also hinder it. template and bottom contours as well.
wish I could talk to a shaper about this.
i have a few boards that don't paddle that well but catch waves very easily and surf well. just tiring getting back out on extended paddles.
i have some that paddle insanely well but don't catch waves that easily also. tough to nail both i guess. also material and construction probably play an important role.
wow, this is a design related question in the design forum! cool!
Why can't you talk to your shaper about this?
Rockers and important factor, boards with little rocker paddle easy, boards with heaps of rocker dont paddle as good.
long narrow boards with F all rocker paddle good and short wide boards with a decent amount of foam and F all rocker paddle good.
Put to much rocker(especially like we saw in early 90's, like boards shane herring was ridding in either and there hard to paddle.
you're as clueless about board design as you are about materials.
yeah I know ur answer, firewires paddle better than wavejets and SUP's
Ouch, While it would be easy to write you off with the same type of negative comment, im not going too.
You don't agree about my comments about rocker? discuss if you dont.
No need to just write me off, i think my comments are very valid.
Take a short wide stubby board design like a gravy, biscuit even dare i mention sweet potatoe, two big reasons they have little rocker one because if they didn't they wouldn't plane like they do and you would find it very hard to get speed, get over and plane over flat sections but you would also find it harder to catch waves and paddle, if that wasn't true they would be great with a little more rocker, because even though these boards go great in certain conditions they often dont surf good in the pocket on steep sections as they dont fit into the curve of the wave.
Perhaps you never went through the early 90's period when boards with heaps of rocker were the go.
Asume i hit a nerve asking why you can't talk to your shaper about this as you did state "wish I could talk to a shaper about this" your words....
im suprised you can't as from previous post i thought you were fairly involved with shaper.
it's not anything personal. ur just really clueless and every post is the same babble. have fun, ur now on ignore and I don't have to listen to any more of your clueless responses. have a nice day.
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"motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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Retropete
Billy Hamilton status
Reged: 01/20/06
Posts: 1748
Loc: Sunny Coast Qld Australia
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Hi havoc, I recall asking you about your tomo as you said it is a great paddler.
Seeing as he's there...and I'm here no chance to feel one up.
Is it the best paddler in your quiver (sub 6' cstergory)?
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Caution: Excessive Kool aid consumption may result in a bitter aftertaste.
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indodreams
Legend (inyourownmind)
Reged: 03/25/11
Posts: 298
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@ Havoc
Are you serious? my comments were totally on topic and i never even mentioned FW or materials or whatever...did i miss something here, weird??
Edited by indodreams (04/13/12 03:40 PM)
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Ivan_
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 12/16/10
Posts: 1820
Loc: Cabo, Mexico
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I honestly dont agree with you Indo, my low volume/higly rockered HPSB paddles really fuggin fast and can catch even gutless 1' slop up to fast walled 8' point breaks (not hawaiian).
In order of paddling for my current 3 boards:
1. HPSB
2. HP Stubby
3. Daily Driver shortboard
Overfoamed boards feel quite sluggish under my chest unless they have very little rocker. 
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Cabo!
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indodreams
Legend (inyourownmind)
Reged: 03/25/11
Posts: 298
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Quote:
I honestly dont agree with you Indo, my low volume/higly rockered HPSB paddles really fuggin fast and can catch even gutless 1' slop up to fast walled 8' point breaks (not hawaiian).
In order of paddling for my current 3 boards:
1. HPSB
2. HP Stubby
3. Daily Driver shortboard
Overfoamed boards feel quite sluggish under my chest unless they have very little rocker.
Yeah fair call, i dont expect everyone to agree, thats life, but its only fair to discuss, rather than just right someone off as Havoc has.
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Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
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Quote:
Hi havoc, I recall asking you about your tomo as you said it is a great paddler.
Seeing as he's there...and I'm here no chance to feel one up.
Is it the best paddler in your quiver (sub 6' cstergory)?
for catching waves and flat water paddling with little bump, it's exceptional. when there's some bump or paddling through washy whitewater, it becomes pretty difficult. this is most likely to the dampening rate of the eps+epoxy. feels lively when duckdiving also. just a bit busier when there's bump which is expected with this design.
I agree with Ivan, I recently paddled a low volume hpsb that cut through the chop and wash much better than my stubby boards. also caught waves with push super easy.
so clearly, it's not a function of foam but really the overall design. I'm continually learning about new things regarding paddling, wave catching regarding boards with different shapes, lengths, and materials.
oh yeah, indodreams ur on ignore so really no sense responding to any of my posts since I can't nor have any desire to read any of your posts. you pretty much disqualified yourself from any meaningful design discussion given your limited knowledge and experience so please get off my thread.
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"motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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Ivan_
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 12/16/10
Posts: 1820
Loc: Cabo, Mexico
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IIRC, someone said length was very important for paddling, Im not exactly sure to what extent... TOMO's are indeed regarded as very good paddlers despite being up to a whole foot shorter than the average shortboard
Fishes also paddle like mad and they dont have to be far from a daily driver volume.
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Cabo!
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Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
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Quote:
IIRC, someone said length was very important for paddling, Im not exactly sure to what extent... TOMO's are indeed regarded as very good paddlers despite being up to a whole foot shorter than the average shortboard
Fishes also paddle like mad and they dont have to be far from a daily driver volume.
yup, agree here fully. we're talking surfboards not paddleboards. I'm wondering what balance between paddle and wave catching and performance. more variables at play.
the best all time paddling and wave catching board for me in everyday conditions was a 5'10 speedialer poly. thing was nuts. short but can paddle and surf from knee high to OH.
edit: best shortboard paddler for me was that speed dialer. clearly a longboard paddles well but not all of them.
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"motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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stu dog
Duke status
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 21700
Loc: CA
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Quote:
Quote:
IIRC, someone said length was very important for paddling, Im not exactly sure to what extent... TOMO's are indeed regarded as very good paddlers despite being up to a whole foot shorter than the average shortboard
Fishes also paddle like mad and they dont have to be far from a daily driver volume.
yup, agree here fully. we're talking surfboards not paddleboards. I'm wondering what balance between paddle and wave catching and performance. more variables at play.
the best all time paddling and wave catching board for me in everyday conditions was a 5'10 speedialer poly. thing was nuts. short but can paddle and surf from knee high to OH.
edit: best shortboard paddler for me was that speed dialer. clearly a longboard paddles well but not all of them.
paddling vs performance ranked:
longboard
funboard
fish/speed-dialer
egg (for me an egg doesn't paddled as good as a fish)
WD type of board
stepup
can't say this enough. to improve your shortboard paddling take out a longboard on a small day and just go for a paddle before, after, or inbetween waves. it's helped me in technique, speed, and endurance
disclaimer: i don't have a gun or paddle board which would rank high in the list
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indodreams
Legend (inyourownmind)
Reged: 03/25/11
Posts: 298
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Quote:
oh yeah, indodreams ur on ignore so really no sense responding to any of my posts since I can't nor have any desire to read any of your posts. you pretty much disqualified yourself from any meaningful design discussion given your limited knowledge and experience so please get off my thread.
Ha ha..ive disqualified myself from any meaningful design discussion..classic
Ive tried not to be judge mental about you, which is kind of hard when i see you avator pic thing.
Limited knowledge and experience?...you know nothing about me as i know nothing about you, my view is just that my view and your view is just that your view.
I think i recall reading in the travel forum you have not gone on a proper surf trip, assume overseas, my advice if your curiosity gets the best of you and read this.
Go travel, that's experience..hopefully i will bump into you in Indo sometime, ill promise i will buy you a bintang and wont hold your negative rant against you.
Im looking out for a guy from US with a coil and quiver of boards that talking board design, and your looking for a guy from OZ indo wife on a FW..okay
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retodd
Tom Curren status
Reged: 02/22/09
Posts: 11174
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cant rule out body type
slim lanky guys vs beer belly midgets
even if they weigh the same the boards that paddle well for them will be very different
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Luther_B
Nep status
Reged: 10/30/10
Posts: 566
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Quote:
What makes a normal size shortboard paddle better ?
A better paddler? 
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this too shall pass
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stu dog
Duke status
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 21700
Loc: CA
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Quote:
Quote:
What makes a normal size shortboard paddle better ?
A better paddler?
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