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I did some werk on a few of them, and now I want one. 5'10" or maybe 5'11"...
like I need another board to confuse me further. I can't help it. Pollywogs, Mini Bees and Mini BLVs oh my.
Looks sweet and makes me want more bonzer kool aid but first I would have to get a twin Kinda like a cut down wider nose RS w/ wide point foward Other then the rail concaves any thing else added to this model GWS?
-------------------- Gotta find a woman be good to me
Won't hide my liquor try to serve me tea
Post Extras:
GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32188
Loc: Dustopia
Quote: These are meant to be ridden very short, like a Mini Simms, right?
GWS, weren't you saying Bonzer bottoms and fins work well on these short and fat micro boards?
In the early 70's the Aussies were riding round little single fins. Trying to make boards like that work in crunchy beach break is what gave birth to the Bonzer. The Bonzer on an ultra stubby/micro board is like chocolate and peanut butter.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
Get the right tool for what you want to do. It's an indisputable fact that surfing took a quantum leap with the advent of multiple toed fins. Assuming that your goal is high speed turns/direction changes, etc., of course.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
That is funny that you should post this because I was going to email MC and ask if he could make me a Bonzer "trunk board" (like the Streach Trunk board but a Bonzer) under five feet to try to avoid airline fees.
I'm 6'1" and I had a 5' 10" Bumble Bee and that thing did fine in pumping surf.
that's a great looking outline. Been riding a twin with that template, and it is super fun. i bet that would be a total blast here at the local test track...
Quote: Curved channels plus toed in fins = brakes permanently stuck on.
until you tilt it, bank, and drive it on rail. you know, turn.
anyway, fins do add drag, but that cost comes with a huge benefit; vector control. not to mention that toed fins come in mighty handy for those of us that like to surf in the pocket, go vertical every now and then.
but i get it, you jest!
anyway, that little board looks like a sh!tload of fun. roy's, not so much.
i do have to admire roy for doing his own thing, i guess...doesn't necessarily explain why he's wearing a skirt in his video, but, if it was good enough for the scotts, irish, ancient romans and greeks...
i've always wondered if roy just stops at speed (distance over time), or whether he considers the fact that acceleration (change in speed and/or direction) plays a big factor in most surfer's pursuit of fun when riding waves. to constantly accelerate across the face of a wave requires good vector control. thanks, toed fins!
that's a killer video of knox, btw.
-------------------- "...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
By the way GWS, it would be interesting to see Taylor Knox on that bonzer in the waves I was riding, and the 17 footer in the waves he was riding. Only the 17 would ride both kinds of wave successfully.
Toggling the speed on the TN video so that he looks faster than he is in reality, while claiming a mythical '5 gears' is lying by the way.
Quote: Curved channels plus toed in fins = brakes permanently stuck on.
until you tilt it, bank, and drive it on rail. you know, turn.
Even then the curved channel will drag as it conflicts with the associated rail fin, have another look at it.
Hydrodynamics 101 would lead to the elimination of that curved channel immediately.
Quote:
anyway, fins do add drag, but that cost comes with a huge benefit; vector control. not to mention that toed fins come in mighty handy for those of us that like to surf in the pocket, go vertical every now and then.
Whether or not fin(s) add or subtract from the total drag of the board and rider depends upon their lift drag ratio, what they are doing with the lift, and how the lift interacts with the board.
Quote:
I've always wondered if roy just stops at speed (distance over time), or whether he considers the fact that acceleration (change in speed and/or direction) plays a big factor in most surfer's pursuit of fun when riding waves. to constantly accelerate across the face of a wave requires good vector control. thanks, toed fins!
That's gobbledegook, in other words nonsense.
Heavier board and rider combinations accelerate faster, all else being equal.
The handling chracteristics being sought are unnecessary.
Even ignoring that idea curved channels serve no purpose and will merely slow the board down.
.
Unnecessary to whom? For a person who fancies Bonzers, I think it would be a bit necessary. BTW, art is so much more than Picasso's quote, aaaannndd....book smarts don't float as well as imagination and fantasy. Surfing is FUN. You're not surfing unless you're having fun. Fun is too fast and immediate, it flies over flat spots and hard edges, toed in fins and three stage rockers.. It is immune to viral pontifications.
I've always wondered if roy just stops at speed (distance over time), or whether he considers the fact that acceleration (change in speed and/or direction) plays a big factor in most surfer's pursuit of fun when riding waves. to constantly accelerate across the face of a wave requires good vector control. thanks, toed fins!
Quote: That's gobbledegook, in other words nonsense.
Heavier board and rider combinations accelerate faster, all else being equal.
Toed in fins do not equal greater acceleration !
you sir, are wrong!
toed fins allow you to turn harder, faster, more often, and with great G forces, thus, provide for an ability to accelerate constantly.
let's take an average, 4' glassy, peeling pointbreak wave for the setting, and for the sake of the argument, let's say one guy has a big heavy, roy stewart approved, olo board, and the other has a nice, short bonzer bonzer light vehicle.
let's stipulate that the first rider rides the mega long and heavy olo board as well as possible, and so does the guy on the bonzer.
the guy riding the bonzer will have been accelerating for nearly the entire ride, 100 yards, with GREATER acceleration, for longer durations, and in many more instances.
a guy surfing off the bottom, off the top, roundhousing, and s-turning for 100 yards is undergoing constant acceleration.
the first surfer, who basically trims along after reaching terminal velocity, turns far less, and pulls far fewer Gs in those turns, has come nowhere near the level of acceleration the second surfer has.
and btw, a fin has drag, no matter what, irrespective of the forces it produces, unless its moving in a vacuum, in which case, it has no drag.
you're such a putz, sometimes, roy.
-------------------- "...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
Post Extras:
Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Zealand
toed fins allow you to turn harder, faster, more often, and with great G forces, thus, provide for an ability to accelerate constantly.
That's not correct.
Quote:
let's take an average, 4' glassy, peeling pointbreak wave for the setting, and for the sake of the argument, let's say one guy has a big heavy, roy stewart approved, olo board, and the other has a nice, short bonzer bonzer light vehicle.
let's stipulate that the first rider rides the mega long and heavy olo board as well as possible, and so does the guy on the bonzer.
the guy riding the bonzer will have been accelerating for nearly the entire ride
You made the same mistake again
Quote:
a guy surfing off the bottom, off the top, roundhousing, and s-turning for 100 yards is undergoing constant acceleration.
Again that is incorrect.
Of course his speed will vary but you keep saying that he will accelerate constantly, which would lead to his speed constantly increasing.
That's not what happens.
Quote:
and btw, a fin has drag, no matter what, irrespective of the forces it produces, unless its moving in a vacuum, in which case, it has no drag.
Obviously.
I have never suggested otherwise.
The point is that the production of lift causes drag, this applies to fins and surfboard hulls. Whether or not the overall lift/drag ratio of a finned board is better or worse than the lift/drag ratio of an unfinned board during the course of a ride depends upon many factors. It is usually but not always the case that submerged foils have better lift/drag ratios than planing hulls
I did some werk on a few of them, and now I want one. 5'10" or maybe 5'11"...
like I need another board to confuse me further. I can't help it. Pollywogs, Mini Bees and Mini BLVs oh my.
Looks sweet and makes me want more bonzer kool aid but first I would have to get a twin Kinda like a cut down wider nose RS w/ wide point foward Other then the rail concaves any thing else added to this model GWS?
New outline (for me anyway, Malcolm used old templates to make it) but it utilizes rockers, bottoms and rails that Malcolm has developed/tested over decades. The Bonzer Light bottom was something that Malcolm started using in 1977 during a trip to Australia. I believe it was something in use by Jim Pollard. Cole Smith was his test pilot if I remember right.
I want a variation of one with a standard Bonzer Bottom, a 5 fin Bonzer fin set up and with an e-wing.
I can never leave anything alone. It's a problem I have...
Here's a circa '77 photo of Bonzer Light bottom in action...
Quote:
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
Edited by GWS (04/03/11 08:37 AM)
Post Extras:
hallucinogenic_toreador
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 5955
Loc: socal beachbreak barrels
toed fins allow you to turn harder, faster, more often, and with great G forces, thus, provide for an ability to accelerate constantly.
That's not correct.
Quote:
let's take an average, 4' glassy, peeling pointbreak wave for the setting, and for the sake of the argument, let's say one guy has a big heavy, roy stewart approved, olo board, and the other has a nice, short bonzer bonzer light vehicle.
let's stipulate that the first rider rides the mega long and heavy olo board as well as possible, and so does the guy on the bonzer.
the guy riding the bonzer will have been accelerating for nearly the entire ride
You made the same mistake again
Quote:
a guy surfing off the bottom, off the top, roundhousing, and s-turning for 100 yards is undergoing constant acceleration.
Again that is incorrect.
Of course his speed will vary but you keep saying that he will accelerate constantly, which would lead to his speed constantly increasing.
That's not what happens.
Quote:
and btw, a fin has drag, no matter what, irrespective of the forces it produces, unless its moving in a vacuum, in which case, it has no drag.
Obviously.
I have never suggested otherwise.
The point is that the production of lift causes drag, this applies to fins and surfboard hulls. Whether or not the overall lift/drag ratio of a finned board is better or worse than the lift/drag ratio of an unfinned board during the course of a ride depends upon many factors. It is usually but not always the case that submerged foils have better lift/drag ratios than planing hulls
PLEASE TAKE PHYSICS 101
any change in speed or direction IS acceleration.
a car going a constant 10 mph in a circle is under constant acceleration. at 10 mph, the shorter the radius/diameter of the circle, the greater the acceleration, even though the car is at constant speed!
hence, faster turns, with tighter arcs, equal greater acceleration.
acceleration is anything that produces "g-forces". short boards with toed fins have infinitely more ability to constantly accelerate than those without.
fact.
therefore, taylor knox accelerates for his entire ride, maybe more than any one on the planet, all other things being equal. knox could never undergo the same level of acceleration (quantifiable as change in vector, speed, and g-forces produced on an olo than he does on the bonzer.
-------------------- "...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
Post Extras:
Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Zealand
Yes of course but that includes slowing down or turning !
I doubt if that's what you meant by 'accelerating throughout the ride'
Quote:
hence, faster turns, with tighter arcs, equal greater acceleration.
You are confused.
You claimed that Taylor Knox on the bonzer would be accelerating throughout the ride whereas the olo would reach a 'terminal velocity', and that the bonzer would therefore go faster.
Unfortunately acceleration as defined by yourself i.e. including slowing down and changes in direction does not entail a higher speed.
All you are really saying is that he jerks his board around a lot, an obvious fact which does not demonstrate greater speed.
If you were indeed trying to say in your confused way that the bonzer rider will acclerate throughout the ride i.e. will keep gaining speed throughout the ride then that is highly unlikely, and I can show you why if you like.
Quote:
acceleration is anything that produces "g-forces". short boards with toed fins have infinitely more ability to constantly accelerate than those without.
All you are saying there is that they do shorter radius turns.... a fact which does not show that they are faster or that they keep gaining speed throughout the ride as implied in your first statement.
You are applying the term 'acceleration' ambiguously, that is the source of your problem.
Quote:
therefore, taylor knox accelerates for his entire ride, maybe more than any one on the planet, all other things being equal.
Mate you are totally confused !
Constantly turning is certainly constant acceleration, however it does not imply an increase in speed.
Your theory is akin to saying that a car keeps on going faster and faster if it is on a winding road.
Quote:
knox could never undergo the same level of acceleration (quantifiable as change in vector, speed, and g-forces produced0 on an olo than he does on the bonzer.
Wrong.
'Change in vector' and 'change in g force' does not imply an increase in speed.
The amount of rider energy which can be applied to surfboard propulsion by any rider is fixed, it won't lead to endless increases in speed.
Im confused by what you are trying to say. The fins will reduce acceleration? Lets say you are right.
So is acceleration all we are concerned about when surfing?
Lets say we put your fin on and change the bottom, even if we gain speed, wont we lose handling characteristics?
If I want fast I will surf on my twinzer. I'm telling you right now my twinzer goes faster than my bonzer in gutless waves. That board will make speed where there is none. But as the surf gets more powerful do I need the board to generate speed for me?
If I am surfing a barreling reef pass do I need the speed of the twinzer when the wave is giving me the speed I need?
Don't other varibles come into play?
I'm not understanding you and I am trying.
Post Extras:
Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
H_t nailed it and explains why I find riding a shortboard that can turn and hence accelerate and decelerate and have a much higher variable velocity so much more satisfying than riding a trim machine. acceleration in layman terms is the rate of change (ROC) of the velocity which we can model by a vector. the magnitude of this vector is the speed.
Now, when velocity changes e.g. increases and decreases we feel a force and what H_T calls g-forces, like when a jet banks hard and we feel the force. (not gonna go into normal and tangential compts of accel. etc.) large trim type of boards that surf further on the shoulder and away from the steep power source of the wave feel less force (which to us is fun fun) is that when in trim, the velocity is more or less constant hence you feel very little force.
it would be cool to take measurements of a shortboard rider and plot the velocity vectors (and accel.) including magnitude on the curve of their ride. I bet you can find a correlation to the stoke factor from the variability of the vecors and curvature of the path.
Havoc
-------------------- "motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
Post Extras:
Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Zealand
A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
Im confused by what you are trying to say. The fins will reduce acceleration?
Lets say you are right.
I didn't say that.
Quote:
So is acceleration all we are concerned about when surfing?
It was HT who introduced acceleration to this topic, I was merely pointing out his errors in thinking.
Quote:
Lets say we put your fin on and change the bottom, even if we gain speed, wont we lose handling characteristics?
You'll change the handling characteristics.
Quote:
If I want fast I will surf on my twinzer. I'm telling you right now my twinzer goes faster than my bonzer in gutless waves. That board will make speed where there is none. But as the surf gets more powerful do I need the board to generate speed for me?
Ok and that depends.
Quote:
If I am surfing a barreling reef pass do I need the speed of the twinzer when the wave is giving me the speed I need?
Don't other varibles come into play?
I'm not understanding you and I am trying.
I was merely pointing out the major error in HT's thinking regarding acceleration, prior to that I criticised the curved channel on the bonzer and said that I like the board but would remove the channel and put a tunnel on it if it were mine.
Yes of course but that includes slowing down or turning !
I doubt if that's what you meant by 'accelerating throughout the ride'
My 2 cents: your assumption = false. Also, you were on a thread a few years ago where HT went through that whole semantic discussion.
G-loadings are fun. Theyre not the only fun in surfing but they are fun. I personally think longboarding and your surfing lack sufficient opportunities to make them worthwhile. But that's just, like, my opinion.
You admit you assumed a premise and you were corrected on his intent and you still go on. And on.
-------------------- "Obviously, you've never chopped broccoli."
Post Extras:
Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Zealand
You admit you assumed a premise and you were corrected on his intent and you still go on. And on.
Incorrect.
HT's ramblings are incoherent so if one is to reply one must attempt to interpret them.
He was comparing 'terminal velocity' with 'constant acceleration'..... by doing so one can deduce that he was necessarily referring to acceleration applied to the goal of increasing velocity, rather than just acceleration as oscillating speed with direction changes.
In the two videos posted, the shortboard ridden by Taylor Knox would not have ridden the waves I was riding, but my 17 would have ridden the waves TK was riding.
Yes of course but that includes slowing down or turning !
I doubt if that's what you meant by 'accelerating throughout the ride'
Quote:
hence, faster turns, with tighter arcs, equal greater acceleration.
You are confused.
You claimed that Taylor Knox on the bonzer would be accelerating throughout the ride whereas the olo would reach a 'terminal velocity', and that the bonzer would therefore go faster.
Unfortunately acceleration as defined by yourself i.e. including slowing down and changes in direction does not entail a higher speed.
All you are really saying is that he jerks his board around a lot, an obvious fact which does not demonstrate greater speed.
If you were indeed trying to say in your confused way that the bonzer rider will acclerate throughout the ride i.e. will keep gaining speed throughout the ride then that is highly unlikely, and I can show you why if you like.
Quote:
acceleration is anything that produces "g-forces". short boards with toed fins have infinitely more ability to constantly accelerate than those without.
All you are saying there is that they do shorter radius turns.... a fact which does not show that they are faster or that they keep gaining speed throughout the ride as implied in your first statement.
You are applying the term 'acceleration' ambiguously, that is the source of your problem.
Quote:
therefore, taylor knox accelerates for his entire ride, maybe more than any one on the planet, all other things being equal.
Mate you are totally confused !
Constantly turning is certainly constant acceleration, however it does not imply an increase in speed.
Your theory is akin to saying that a car keeps on going faster and faster if it is on a winding road.
Quote:
knox could never undergo the same level of acceleration (quantifiable as change in vector, speed, and g-forces produced0 on an olo than he does on the bonzer.
Wrong.
'Change in vector' and 'change in g force' does not imply an increase in speed.
The amount of rider energy which can be applied to surfboard propulsion by any rider is fixed, it won't lead to endless increases in speed.
.
you've been schooled.
i used the term "acceleration" according to the definition, and it is EXACTLY what i meant about toed-in fins allowing you to accelerate constantly.
this is what's fun for most people - you know, pulling Gs! constant acceleration, changing speed AND direction, constantly, as fast and hard as you can!
you are the guy using the "acceleration" incorrectly and incompletely.
and yes, acceleration does include braking and slowing down. nothing, NOTHING, beats being able to do a hard tube stall in the pocket when your going way too fast, when you are coming off a steep drop and hard bottom turn, redirecting into the hook in order to pull back into the barrel, snapping, even doing a "wheelie" to slow down fast, with control, then being able to set the rail in the tube, and start accelerating again to chase down the exit from the barrel.
thrusters do this exceptionally well, with more acceleration, and in a shorter period of time than you will ever experience on an olo. period.
-------------------- "...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
Post Extras:
juan_guzman
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/20/08
Posts: 3498
Quote: A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
Horseshit. Here's the quote: "i've always wondered if roy just stops at speed (distance over time), or whether he considers the fact that acceleration (change in speed and/or direction) plays a big factor in most surfer's pursuit of fun when riding waves."
Your argument is based on a factual error or deliberate misstatement.
-------------------- "Obviously, you've never chopped broccoli."
Post Extras:
hallucinogenic_toreador
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 5955
Loc: socal beachbreak barrels
Quote: A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
Horseshit. Here's the quote: "i've always wondered if roy just stops at speed (distance over time), or whether he considers the fact that acceleration (change in speed and/or direction) plays a big factor in most surfer's pursuit of fun when riding waves."
Your argument is based on a factual error or deliberate misstatement.
now you need to take physics 101.
ACCELERATION is any change in speed OR direction. period. that is the DEFINITION!!!
what makes surfing fun for the vast majority of us is the fact that toed-in fins add great vector control.
good grief
a surfer who is constantly turning is constantly accelerating! whether its a long turn, short turn, any turn. you cannot turn without accelerating! it is absolutely impossible, by definition!
what was knox doing, constantly turning, therefore, by definition, constantly accelerating! sheesh!
i used the term EXACTLY according to the definition, which is EXACTLY what i meant.
in the video of taylor knox, for example, he is constantly accelerating for the duration of his rides! that's what's fun!
you guys do not understand the term acceleration (there is no such thing as "deceleration" in classical physic terms - ALL changes in either speed, or direction, is ACCELERATION, even if its braking)!
i am sorry that you both use the term incorrectly. perhaps if you take physics 101, you will understand what acceleration is. if you ever do a good turn, at high speed on rail, perhaps you will understand in practice, as well as theory, why toed-in fins are so fun...BECAUSE THEY ALLOW FOR THE SURFER TO CONSTANTLY ACCELERATE, AND AT HIGH LEVELS!
-------------------- "...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
Post Extras:
Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Zealand
All you mean by 'acceleration' in this context is 'turning'.
It was stupid of you therefore to compare 'constant acceleration' ( i.e. turning) with 'terminal velocity' because all you are doing is comparing turning with terminal velocity, which makes no sense.
So the bottom line remains: namely that you have used a couple of pages to say that Taylor Knox turns a lot. . . why didn't you just say so?
I'll tell you why, and the clue is in your comparison of 'constant acceleration' with 'terminal velocity'. . . you were trying to say that turning all the time makes Taylor Knox go faster.
If you weren't saying that then all you were doing was saying that he constantly turns.
Quote: A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
Horseshit. Here's the quote: "i've always wondered if roy just stops at speed (distance over time), or whether he considers the fact that acceleration (change in speed and/or direction) plays a big factor in most surfer's pursuit of fun when riding waves."
Your argument is based on a factual error or deliberate misstatement.
now you need to take physics 101.
ACCELERATION is any change in speed OR direction. period. that is the DEFINITION!!!
what makes surfing fun for the vast majority of us is the fact that toed-in fins add great vector control.
good grief
a surfer who is constantly turning is constantly accelerating! whether its a long turn, short turn, any turn. you cannot turn without accelerating! it is absolutely impossible, by definition!
what was knox doing, constantly turning, therefore, by definition, constantly accelerating! sheesh!
i used the term EXACTLY according to the definition, which is EXACTLY what i meant.
in the video of taylor knox, for example, he is constantly accelerating for the duration of his rides! that's what's fun!
you guys do not understand the term acceleration (there is no such thing as "deceleration" in classical physic terms - ALL changes in either speed, or direction, is ACCELERATION, even if its braking)!
i am sorry that you both use the term incorrectly. perhaps if you take physics 101, you will understand what acceleration is. if you ever do a good turn, at high speed on rail, perhaps you will understand in practice, as well as theory, why toed-in fins are so fun...BECAUSE THEY ALLOW FOR THE SURFER TO CONSTANTLY ACCELERATE, AND AT HIGH LEVELS!
I was agreeing with you + I was replying to Roy? You silly, man. BTW I know about toed-in fins and why theyre good for performance surfing.
-------------------- "Obviously, you've never chopped broccoli."
Post Extras:
Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
Quote: A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
actually, even if the velocity is held constant, when turning a board you feel force (H_T's G-force) in the normal direction to the arc of your turn. simple calculus that the normal component of acceleration is proportional to curvature of the path you are taking. Thus, in theory you can still pull G-forces by turning a tighter arc despite running the same constant velocity. It is what it is. When you turn, it's fun! plain and simple!
Olo-Out!
Havoc
-------------------- "motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
Post Extras:
Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Zealand
Quote: A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
actually, even if the velocity is held constant, when turning a board you feel force (H_T's G-force) in the normal direction to the arc of your turn. simple calculus that the normal component of acceleration is proportional to curvature of the path you are taking. Thus, in theory you can still pull G-forces by turning a tighter arc despite running the same constant velocity. It is what it is. When you turn, it's fun! plain and simple!
Olo-Out!
Havoc
Yes of course but when calling turning acceleration and then saying that it's therefore faster than 'terminal velocity' the person is deliberately (IMO ) posting ambiguously in a way which tries to spread misinformation, namely that turning constantly increases speed constantly. . . . . there's no other explanation for the 'apples and pears' statements made by HT.
Quote: A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
actually, even if the velocity is held constant, when turning a board you feel force (H_T's G-force) in the normal direction to the arc of your turn. simple calculus that the normal component of acceleration is proportional to curvature of the path you are taking. Thus, in theory you can still pull G-forces by turning a tighter arc despite running the same constant velocity. It is what it is. When you turn, it's fun! plain and simple!
Olo-Out!
Havoc
That works all the time in real life -- swingsets, ice skating spins, decreasing radius curves on the road, halfpipes, lots of turns in surfing. Here's the junk on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration
-------------------- "Obviously, you've never chopped broccoli."
Post Extras:
Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
Quote: A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
actually, even if the velocity is held constant, when turning a board you feel force (H_T's G-force) in the normal direction to the arc of your turn. simple calculus that the normal component of acceleration is proportional to curvature of the path you are taking. Thus, in theory you can still pull G-forces by turning a tighter arc despite running the same constant velocity. It is what it is. When you turn, it's fun! plain and simple!
Olo-Out!
Havoc
That works all the time in real life -- swingsets, ice skating spins, decreasing radius curves on the road, halfpipes, top-turn reverses. Here's the junk on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration
yup, that's right! why carving up a canyon in a sportscar is super fun. why going from 0-60 in 4.5 sec's is more fun than going 0-60 in 18 secs. Point is, you can feel the force due to acceleration in a straight line provided your velocity is variable and if it is constant in magnitude (i.e. constant speed) you can still feel acceleration (force) during a hard turn.
there you go, in mathematical and physical terms why turns are always fun!
Stay Olo my friends!
Havoc
-------------------- "motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Zealand
Haha the acceleration which reduces speed. .. the resident hallucinator thinks it's going to make the board go faster than terminal velocity.... tell those skydivers to start flapping !
Nice board Sharkie. It looks, for lack of a better description, fun.
Roy, Roy, Roy. I swear to Jebus you just don't get that some people can enjoy a board with characteristics that lend to the rider's ability to maneuver it into the most critical part of the wave. What you're doing is comparable to riding a soap box derby car straight down a bunny slope with a scoutmaster timing you with the second hand on his mickey mouse watch. In short, 2D. If that's what you like, well fine. Some of us enjoy experiencing surfing in 3D, or in short, adjusting the position of the board to fit the situation dictated by the wave.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just "different".
-------------------- "That's their respect for me... I got leid," Rabbit Kekai
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juan_guzman
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/20/08
Posts: 3498
Not even. Your shtick is the vomit of a drug addict. Beneath contempt. Not deserving of the attention you get. I couldnt care less. Youre graffiti. But all that said, f u c k o f f you f u c k i n g c u n t.
-------------------- "Obviously, you've never chopped broccoli."
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hallucinogenic_toreador
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 5955
Loc: socal beachbreak barrels
Quote: A wordy way of saying that you prefer to jerk your board around frantically.
Nice apologetics on behalf of HT who initially claimed that TkNox would accelerate throughout the ride instead of reaching terminal velocity like an Olo. . . . well now that's been amended to 'we prefer to slow down and then speed up again'
Clearly HT was implying that the shortboard keeps on gaining speed throughout the ride and has now changed his tune realising that he was wrong.
.
.
actually, even if the velocity is held constant, when turning a board you feel force (H_T's G-force) in the normal direction to the arc of your turn. simple calculus that the normal component of acceleration is proportional to curvature of the path you are taking. Thus, in theory you can still pull G-forces by turning a tighter arc despite running the same constant velocity. It is what it is. When you turn, it's fun! plain and simple!
Olo-Out!
Havoc
Yes of course but when calling turning acceleration and then saying that it's therefore faster than 'terminal velocity' the person is deliberately (IMO ) posting ambiguously in a way which tries to spread misinformation, namely that turning constantly increases speed constantly. . . . . there's no other explanation for the 'apples and pears' statements made by HT.
don't blame ME for YOUR failure to understand the definition of ACCELERATION, which is any change in SPEED OR any change in DIRECTION!
just because you fail to acknowledge that a change in direction IS acceleration, and just because your failure to understand the term, or the implications of the physical phenomenon it describes, in its entireity, and therefore the fact that you then completely mis-interpreted my remarks because of your incomplete understanding, does not mean you get to say I was saying something i WAS NOT.
i did not, and never did intend, to say that a board with toed-in fins, or that taylor knox in the video posted, continued to gain speed for the entire ride. that's non-sensical.
as i said originally, toed-in fins allow you to accelerate constantly on a wave, because they allow you to constantly turn, bank, change direction, speed up, slow down, match the speed of the pocket, outrun the pocket, turn back into the pocket, etc., as demonstrated so superbly by knox.
don't put your one-dimensional and incomplete understanding of basic physics on me.
there's not one statement that i made that isn't understood to be true, and consistent with the laws of physics.
on top of that, most of us like to turn, therefore, it is the acceleration that we find so fun in surfing, and the greater the acceleration, and more instances of it, the more fun we have.
a strong argument can be made that the best surfers in the world are the ones that are best at vector control; they can accelerate at higher levels (i.e., pull more g's through change in speed AND change in direction) and do so more often, over the course of a ride, than any other surfers on the planet.
knox is a prime example. the forces that compress him against his board, and which he can continue to push against, are the forces of acceleration (i.e, g-forces). he can maintain control under higher acceleration, at higher g-force levels, whether its a long arc at high speed, or tight arc at lower speeds, than just about anyone on the planet. toed-in fins are a HUGE benefit in this pursuit.
go back to school.
tunnel fins are stupid.
-------------------- "...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Zealand
Not even. Your shtick is the vomit of a drug addict. Beneath contempt. Not deserving of the attention you get. I couldnt care less. Youre graffiti. But all that said, f u c k o f f you f u c k i n g c u n t.
don't blame ME for YOUR failure to understand the definition of ACCELERATION, which is any change in SPEED OR any change in DIRECTION!
just because you fail to acknowledge that a change in direction IS acceleration, and just because your failure to understand the term, or the implications of the physical phenomenon it describes, in its entireity, and therefore the fact that you then completely mis-interpreted my remarks because of your incomplete understanding, does not mean you get to say I was saying something i WAS NOT.
i did not, and never did intend, to say that a board with toed-in fins, or that taylor knox in the video posted, continued to gain speed for the entire ride. that's non-sensical.
as i said originally, toed-in fins allow you to accelerate constantly on a wave, because they allow you to constantly turn, bank, change direction, speed up, slow down, match the speed of the pocket, outrun the pocket, turn back into the pocket, etc., as demonstrated so superbly by knox.
don't put your one-dimensional and incomplete understanding of basic physics on me.
there's not one statement that i made that isn't understood to be true, and consistent with the laws of physics.
on top of that, most of us like to turn, therefore, it is the acceleration that we find so fun in surfing, and the greater the acceleration, and more instances of it, the more fun we have.
a strong argument can be made that the best surfers in the world are the ones that are best at vector control; they can accelerate at higher levels (i.e., pull more g's through change in speed AND change in direction) and do so more often, over the course of a ride, than any other surfers on the planet.
knox is a prime example. the forces that compress him against his board, and which he can continue to push against, are the forces of acceleration (i.e, g-forces). he can maintain control under higher acceleration, at higher g-force levels, whether its a long arc at high speed, or tight arc at lower speeds, than just about anyone on the planet. toed-in fins are HUGE benefit in this pursuit.
go back to school.
tunnel fins are stupid.
So why did you say that taylor knox will accelerate throughout the ride which is better than my board which reaches terminal velocity ?
You were comparing 'apples and pears' and the comparison only makes sense if one is comparing speed and acceleration down the line, it makes no sense at all if one is merely talking about turning.
Yor inane babbling is an example of a smattering of education leading to a false sense of importance.
In addition going into this spastic shortboard apologetics binge as you have, reminds me of the saying that 'The lady protesteth too much'
Bottom line is Taylor is just a baby jumping up and down in his car seat thinking that he's getting there faster because of it while the adults groove on the view and listen to mind elevating music.
Thrashing one's board up and down unecessarily is a form of public masturbation, but each to their own.
If you calm down I'll read you this story about Kelly's 'wasteland years'
"If unconfirmed rumours coming out of Cocoa Beach, Florida are to be believed King Kelly has taken an axe to his entire quiver on seeing video of Roy's exploits and now refers to his record-breaking ten world titles as "the wasteland years". Frankly, who can blame him? "
Quote: So why did you say that taylor knox will accelerate throughout the ride which is better than my board which reaches terminal velocity ?
You were comparing 'apples and pears' and the comparison only makes sense if one is comparing speed and acceleration down the line, it makes no sense at all if one is merely talking about turning.
Yor inane babbling is an example of a smattering of education leading to a false sense of importance.
In addition going into this spastic shortboard apologetics binge as you have, reminds me of the saying that 'The lady protesteth too much'
Bottom line is Taylor is just a baby jumping up and down in his car seat thinking that he's getting there faster because of it while the adults groove on the view and listen to mind elevating music.
Thrashing one's board up and down unecessarily is a form of public masturbation, but each to their own.
If you calm down I'll read you this story about Kelly's 'wasteland years'
its apples to apples.
lets say that you ride the exact same wave - a wave of exactly equal size, interval, power, shape, and at the same exact break, as taylor knox; you on an olo, and taylor on a bonzer.
if you were to plot the total ground distance covered, taylor would have you by a mile, yet you would both start at the same takeoff spot, end at the same channel or wave termination location in the same amount of time.
knox will have had much higher average speed compared to you, because speed is time over distance! knox will have undergone constant acceleration, will have taken a more winding path from point A to point B, yet will arrive in the exact same location, after starting at the exact same location, and do so in the same amount of time!
who went faster? knox. your path was mostly straight, his was curved and winding. speed is distance over time. you both surfed a wave for the identical amount of time, yet knox turned up, down, sped down the line, cut all the way back to the curl, then sped down the line, then dropped way down the face, then turned straight back up the face, over and over. you basically trimmed, with slight adjustments to speed and direction. knox had large changes in both speed and direction - in fact, his roundhouse cutbacks allowed him to cover some of the same ground virtually twice!
i said that knox accelerates constantly over the course of the ride, whereas your olo gets up to speed, and then pretty much just goes along - minimal changes in speed or direction. that's a single instance of acceleration, then little thereafter.
the olo's turns are slight, don't generate much in terms of g-force, and hence, the level of acceleration is low by comparison to a good rider on a shortboard, accelerating hard, compressing his body through long, high speed turns, or exploding through short punching turns that change speed and direction instantly, then pumps back to speed to match the vector of the peeling wave.
if you were to measure acceleration, quantitatively via accelerometer, over the course of a ride between you on your olo, and taylor knox on a bonzer, it would put you to shame. i would wager that knox's acceleration on a shortboard with toed-in fins, in quantifiable terms, would exceed yours by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE!
you make nice wave riding canoes, with superb wood-working skills. your knowledge of physics and fluid dynamics is below high school level.
the bonzer looks like a really fun board, i'd like to try a bonzer one of these days.
-------------------- "...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Zealand
lets say that you ride the exact same wave - a wave of exactly equal size, power, and at the same exact break - as taylor knox. you on an olo, and taylor on a bonzer.
It's a loaded example because it assumes that Taylor was able to make the wave.
Next...
Quote:
if you were to plot the total ground distance covered, taylor would have you by a mile, yet you would both start at the same takeoff spot, end at the same channel or wave termination location in the same amount of time.
Highly questionable as you once again assume that Taylor was able to make the wave.
Even if it played out as described so what ? It's just inefficiency of motion having to jump up and down to get to the same place as someone else who does it with less effort.
Quote:
knox will have had much higher average speed compared to you, because speed is time over distance
If he waves his arms about some more you could add that on to the ride with your post surf slide rule and claim a victory of inefficiency.
Quote:
who went faster? knox. your path was mostly straight, his was curved and winding. speed is distance over time.
Mate, it didn't happen.
In reality we don't know that Taylor would even make the wave.
Quote:
i said that knox accelerates constantly over the course of the ride, whereas your olo gets up to speed, and then pretty much just goes along - minimal changes in speed or direction. that's a single instance of acceleration, then little thereafter.
Absolutely incorrect based on a fictitious example designed to prove the theory it is supposed to be testing
It's a circular argument, you don't seem to be able to distinguish between reality and fantasy.
I've analysed tracks, and i know that what you are saying isn't true.
Quote:
the olo's turns are slight
Here we enter the dim world of 'how long is a piece of string'
The olo does all turns which are necessary to make the wave, and turns through 180 degrees when required.
If that's 'minimal' then we have to say that minimal = functional.
Quote:
, don't generate much in terms of g-force, and hence, the level of acceleration is low by comparison to a good rider on a shortboard, accelerating hard, compressing his body through long, high speed turns, or exploding through short punching turns that change speed and direction instantly, then pumps back to speed to match the vector of the peeling wave.
More jumping around to achieve what can be done with far less effort.
In reality acceleration is useful for increases in velocity for section making and staying on the wave, going around in circles is just useless flapping. . .and heavier olo boards accelerate faster and reach higher speeds in many surf conditions than shortboards do.
Quote:
if you were to measure acceleration, quantitatively via accelerometer, over the course of a ride between you on your olo, and taylor knox on a bonzer, it would put you to shame. i would wager that knox's acceleration on a shortboard with toed-in fins, in quantifiable terms, would exceed yours by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE!
Whatever mate, you could also get world beating acceleration in your car by driving it at full speed into a cliff but it would be meaningless as a means of travelling via gaining velocity . . . and you are still assuming that taylor made the wave, while I'm still wondering if he was able to catch it !
By the way as pointed out previously Kelly Slater et al at Snapper in waves which were better than what I was surfing in my tests couldn't get within 10mph of my speeds.
All I know is yesterday, riding that bottom, I got a fairly large air on a 4 foot wave. Pumping that bitch down the line to build speed felt . And I know that is no big deal for some of you, but uh... getting 200 plus pounds of fifty plus year old man to escape velocity in a small mushy wave... sure seemed like something was working to me. (And no, I didn't land it ) I'm sure if I read all this, I'd discover that it wasn't really working, so, I think I'll just skip it and go surfing again.
Ignorance is bliss.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
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averagejoe
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/28/08
Posts: 3374
Loc: santa cruz
Quote: All I know is yesterday, riding that bottom, I got a fairly large air on a 4 foot wave. Pumping that bitch down the line to build speed felt . And I know that is no big deal for some of you, but uh... getting 200 plus pounds of fifty plus year old man to escape velocity in a small mushy wave... sure seemed like something was working to me. (And no, I didn't land it ) I'm sure if I read all this, I'd discover that it wasn't really working, so, I think I'll just skip it and go surfing again.
Ignorance is bliss.
-------------------- 6' 165 lbs 40 yrs old and i hate thrusters
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rowjimmytour
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 02/06/09
Posts: 2444
Loc: GOLETATHEGOODLAND
Quote: All I know is yesterday, riding that bottom, I got a fairly large air on a 4 foot wave. Pumping that bitch down the line to build speed felt . And I know that is no big deal for some of you, but uh... getting 200 plus pounds of fifty plus year old man to escape velocity in a small mushy wave... sure seemed like something was working to me. (And no, I didn't land it ) I'm sure if I read all this, I'd discover that it wasn't really working, so, I think I'll just skip it and go surfing again.
Ignorance is bliss.
+1 minus the mushy waves Just got back from a 2 night three day camp trip up North and all I packed was 5 fin bonzers. First day I surfed my rp 5'6" bumblebee w/ sets OH+ and it handled like a race car but the rip getting out was a bitch. I really wanted to try the semi gun I scored at the end of last winter from Motosurf so I brought my 7'1" out for afternoon low tide session w/ swell building Scored some great lefts on this board but never got to go right and yes the rights were good this swell at the river mouth. Fifth gear for sure and would love to trade my quiver in for all bonzers but spice is life so for now I will have two
-------------------- Gotta find a woman be good to me
Won't hide my liquor try to serve me tea
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Zealand
It's a loaded example because it assumes that Taylor was able to make the wave.
idiot! you have to make certain assumptions when discussing theoretical experiments! back to general science you go...
When the assumption is based on an answer to the question which is being asked, then the question is circular and the thought experiment is bankrupt... as in this case.
"Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour"? "I told you once." "no, you didn't." "Yes, I did." "No, you didn't." "Yes, I did." "Look, this is stupid. This is not an argument. This is just the automatic gainsaying of everything I say." "No, it's not." A less than accurate recollection of Monty Python's argument sketch. No, it wasn't. Yes, it was... Someone please find it on You tube and post it up for all the young whippersnappers to enjoy.
-------------------- Caution: Excessive Kool aid consumption may result in a bitter aftertaste.
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Ivan_
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 12/16/10
Posts: 1829
Loc: Cabo, Mexico
I find it pointless that Roy never seems to show us what his knowledge can do for shortboards and its pointless to ask for it cause apparently he never will
Quote: I find it pointless that Roy never seems to show us what his knowledge can do for shortboards and its pointless to ask for it cause apparently he never will
Hopefully someone who makes their own bodyboards solely for Keiki or Sandys will pollute threads by pointing out that unnecessary movement (standing) to pursue an unnecessary goal (riding makeable waves) is not functional, and that using the word 'fins' (create thrust, ie swimfins) when you mean 'skegs' (create drag) is ${insertInsult}.
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Luddite
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/21/10
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Zealand
Quote: I find it pointless that Roy never seems to show us what his knowledge can do for shortboards and its pointless to ask for it cause apparently he never will
It's a loaded example because it assumes that Taylor was able to make the wave.
idiot! you have to make certain assumptions when discussing theoretical experiments! back to general science you go...
When the assumption is based on an answer to the question which is being asked, then the question is circular and the thought experiment is bankrupt... as in this case.
You therefore are the idiot !
umm...no. w/out the assumption that both riders make the wave, then the experiment is pointless. that assumption doesn't make anything circular at all, nor is it "bankrupt". it makes the argument possible. you're just pissed b/c you're wrong on this...
-------------------- it's surf-related b/c i surf!
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ttboy
Billy Hamilton status
Reged: 01/12/06
Posts: 1369
Loc: a'a
Thinking of getting my first Bonzer and was interested in how they felt. Can someone elaborate on the merits of the setup. Sorry if this has been asked before. Would also be interested in acquiring some of your boards to hang on my wall Roy, but would be willing to pay no more than about 400 bucks at best. Let me know.
-------------------- The stoke is getting pricey.
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GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32188
Loc: Dustopia
I did some werk on a few of them, and now I want one. 5'10" or maybe 5'11"...
like I need another board to confuse me further. I can't help it. Pollywogs, Mini Bees and Mini BLVs oh my.
Looks sweet and makes me want more bonzer kool aid but first I would have to get a twin Kinda like a cut down wider nose RS w/ wide point foward Other then the rail concaves any thing else added to this model GWS?
New outline (for me anyway, Malcolm used old templates to make it) but it utilizes rockers, bottoms and rails that Malcolm has developed/tested over decades. The Bonzer Light bottom was something that Malcolm started using in 1977 during a trip to Australia. I believe it was something in use by Jim Pollard. Cole Smith was his test pilot if I remember right.
I want a variation of one with a standard Bonzer Bottom, a 5 fin Bonzer fin set up and with an e-wing.
I can never leave anything alone. It's a problem I have...
Here's a circa '77 photo of Bonzer Light bottom in action...
Quote:
Don't mind me. I'm just here to look at the pictures and plan my 5'11". I'm thinking I order a 610A -1/2 NR with maybe a red PVC stringer? Wait, maybe make it a "triple" stringer only the outside stringers are 1/2" colored high density foam with no wood, black glue. Get a set of bamboo glass-ons... I'm going to have to think about this. Probably need to sell something to pay for materials...
Clearly I have a problem.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
Post Extras:
averagejoe
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 05/28/08
Posts: 3374
Loc: santa cruz
I did some werk on a few of them, and now I want one. 5'10" or maybe 5'11"...
like I need another board to confuse me further. I can't help it. Pollywogs, Mini Bees and Mini BLVs oh my.
Looks sweet and makes me want more bonzer kool aid but first I would have to get a twin Kinda like a cut down wider nose RS w/ wide point foward Other then the rail concaves any thing else added to this model GWS?
New outline (for me anyway, Malcolm used old templates to make it) but it utilizes rockers, bottoms and rails that Malcolm has developed/tested over decades. The Bonzer Light bottom was something that Malcolm started using in 1977 during a trip to Australia. I believe it was something in use by Jim Pollard. Cole Smith was his test pilot if I remember right.
I want a variation of one with a standard Bonzer Bottom, a 5 fin Bonzer fin set up and with an e-wing.
I can never leave anything alone. It's a problem I have...
Here's a circa '77 photo of Bonzer Light bottom in action...
Quote:
Don't mind me. I'm just here to look at the pictures and plan my 5'11". I'm thinking I order a 610A -1/2 NR with maybe a red PVC stringer? Wait, maybe make it a "triple" stringer only the outside stringers are 1/2" colored high density foam with no wood, black glue. Get a set of bamboo glass-ons... I'm going to have to think about this. Probably need to sell something to pay for materials...
Clearly I have a problem.
why the 610A? thickness?
-------------------- 6' 165 lbs 40 yrs old and i hate thrusters
Quote: GWS: what size did you go with? Went through the whole thread but couldn't find it.
I haven't started the board past making a file with my name on it. 5'11" is the length. My problem is too many boards, too much curiosity and too little time. Been on something of a roll lately rotating among three twin fins, but this a.m. I am looking at a 6'0" Spence Bonzerish/Nuggetish thing I pulled out of the shop last night and
Malcolm is in Europe for awhile, so nothing is going to happen with this for at least three or four weeks.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
Hey GWS is that board supposed to be ridden short like a Mini Simmons? It looks sick, I wanna call Campbell Bros, and see if there shaping those now. Ive been wanting to get a mini simmons but this looks just as fun.
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GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32188
Loc: Dustopia
Quote: Hey GWS is that board supposed to be ridden short like a Mini Simmons? It looks sick, I wanna call Campbell Bros, and see if there shaping those now. Ive been wanting to get a mini simmons but this looks just as fun.
I would say ride it very short. I haven't done mine yet, but there is a lot of volume packed into a short package. You can make one yours if you want. Shoot him an e-mail.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
Post Extras:
GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32188
Loc: Dustopia
I did some werk on a few of them, and now I want one. 5'10" or maybe 5'11"...
like I need another board to confuse me further. I can't help it. Pollywogs, Mini Bees and Mini BLVs oh my.
Looks sweet and makes me want more bonzer kool aid but first I would have to get a twin Kinda like a cut down wider nose RS w/ wide point foward Other then the rail concaves any thing else added to this model GWS?
New outline (for me anyway, Malcolm used old templates to make it) but it utilizes rockers, bottoms and rails that Malcolm has developed/tested over decades. The Bonzer Light bottom was something that Malcolm started using in 1977 during a trip to Australia. I believe it was something in use by Jim Pollard. Cole Smith was his test pilot if I remember right.
I want a variation of one with a standard Bonzer Bottom, a 5 fin Bonzer fin set up and with an e-wing.
I can never leave anything alone. It's a problem I have...
Here's a circa '77 photo of Bonzer Light bottom in action...
Quote:
OK, I need another surfboard like most of the rest of you need another surfboard. It's the "want" I am having problems with. Me want a MBLV. I was set to cut myself a 5'11" version of this last night, but somewhere around board 23, I ran out of gas.
Should I or shouldn't I...
that is the question.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of Roy Stewarts outrageous allegations, or to take arms against a sea of troubles...
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
Post Extras:
LESider
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/25/03
Posts: 3534
Loc: LowerEastSide NYC
I did some werk on a few of them, and now I want one. 5'10" or maybe 5'11"...
like I need another board to confuse me further. I can't help it. Pollywogs, Mini Bees and Mini BLVs oh my.
Looks sweet and makes me want more bonzer kool aid but first I would have to get a twin Kinda like a cut down wider nose RS w/ wide point foward Other then the rail concaves any thing else added to this model GWS?
New outline (for me anyway, Malcolm used old templates to make it) but it utilizes rockers, bottoms and rails that Malcolm has developed/tested over decades. The Bonzer Light bottom was something that Malcolm started using in 1977 during a trip to Australia. I believe it was something in use by Jim Pollard. Cole Smith was his test pilot if I remember right.
I want a variation of one with a standard Bonzer Bottom, a 5 fin Bonzer fin set up and with an e-wing.
I can never leave anything alone. It's a problem I have...
Here's a circa '77 photo of Bonzer Light bottom in action...
Quote:
OK, I need another surfboard like most of the rest of you need another surfboard. It's the "want" I am having problems with. Me want a MBLV. I was set to cut myself a 5'11" version of this last night, but somewhere around board 23, I ran out of gas.
Should I or shouldn't I...
that is the question.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of Roy Stewarts outrageous allegations, or to take arms against a sea of troubles...
Should I or shouldn't I..
you know your in the wrong place if you want to be talked down, cut the freaking thing already! Just so you know 20w has first dibs if you ever sell it, just thought I'd say it before him.
-------------------- yes, I ride a pool toy.
Post Extras:
GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32188
Loc: Dustopia
lets say that you ride the exact same wave - a wave of exactly equal size, interval, power, shape, and at the same exact break, as taylor knox; you on an olo, and taylor on a bonzer.
if you were to plot the total ground distance covered, taylor would have you by a mile, yet you would both start at the same takeoff spot, end at the same channel or wave termination location in the same amount of time.
knox will have had much higher average speed compared to you, because speed is time over distance! knox will have undergone constant acceleration, will have taken a more winding path from point A to point B, yet will arrive in the exact same location, after starting at the exact same location, and do so in the same amount of time!
who went faster? knox. your path was mostly straight, his was curved and winding. speed is distance over time. you both surfed a wave for the identical amount of time, yet knox turned up, down, sped down the line, cut all the way back to the curl, then sped down the line, then dropped way down the face, then turned straight back up the face, over and over. you basically trimmed, with slight adjustments to speed and direction. knox had large changes in both speed and direction - in fact, his roundhouse cutbacks allowed him to cover some of the same ground virtually twice!
i said that knox accelerates constantly over the course of the ride, whereas your olo gets up to speed, and then pretty much just goes along - minimal changes in speed or direction. that's a single instance of acceleration, then little thereafter.
the olo's turns are slight, don't generate much in terms of g-force, and hence, the level of acceleration is low by comparison to a good rider on a shortboard, accelerating hard, compressing his body through long, high speed turns, or exploding through short punching turns that change speed and direction instantly, then pumps back to speed to match the vector of the peeling wave.
if you were to measure acceleration, quantitatively via accelerometer, over the course of a ride between you on your olo, and taylor knox on a bonzer, it would put you to shame. i would wager that knox's acceleration on a shortboard with toed-in fins, in quantifiable terms, would exceed yours by ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE!
you make nice wave riding canoes, with superb wood-working skills. your knowledge of physics and fluid dynamics is below high school level.
the bonzer looks like a really fun board, i'd like to try a bonzer one of these days.
HT is an engineer. He knows what he is talking about. Roy on the other hand is a drugged out hippy tripped out on his designs. To each their own.
wonder if anyone knows whether the 2+1 bonzer pair is available as removable for fcs system? I checked the fcs and truames website they only have the 4+1 sides.
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GWS
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Loc: Dustopia
Quote: wonder if anyone knows whether the 2+1 bonzer pair is available as removable for fcs system? I checked the fcs and truames website they only have the 4+1 sides.
No. I believe they could do it with a 3 plug set up, but given that most of the bonzers are 5 fins, they probably don't want to bother with it. I'm doing mine as a five fin so it travels easy.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
Thanks GWS I got a 6' mini-longboard/ egg outline with deep concave & a 2+1 set-up. Side bites are fcs fusions so probably no luck to try it out as a bonzer
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GWS
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Loc: Dustopia
Quote: OK, this board in Bonzer5 is more fun than a barrel of monkeys. Insanely loose. I tried it with the 6.5" and I'm going to a 7" next session. So fun.
Pics ?
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20W-50 and blood
Duke status
Reged: 02/04/04
Posts: 16769
Loc: SOCAL
Quote: OK, this board in Bonzer5 is more fun than a barrel of monkeys. Insanely loose. I tried it with the 6.5" and I'm going to a 7" next session. So fun.
Pics ?
+1 if you are talking about your mini light vehicle you mentioned that was getting finished up, w no rail channels as a 5fin, would love to see some photos please.
-------------------- What fin sets work well with this board.
I think the 7" is the one for me. My next move with the 6.5 would have been back in the box an 1/8" at a time. But, I plugged the 7" one in this morning in the same spot were I'd had the 6.5 and the thing is still plenty loose only way more drive.
So fun.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
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WarrenC
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 11/30/08
Posts: 2757
great looking board gws..thanks for posting the pics was curious if you or anybody else well versed in bonzers might give an opinion on whether the 5 fin or the 3 fin might be better for small waves...i know zippo about bonzers but was thinking maybe the 3 fin would produce more forward thrust or drive due to no break in the side fins in small stuff talking ne fl east coast small beachbreak..thigh to to chest high this board looks like it would be really effective with the wider nose to get you in but narrower tail to keep it loose and still more effective in turns maybe i just answered my own question...was thinking it might fit the slot of a keel fish but better in its own way
-------------------- What fin sets work well with this board.
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GWS
Duke status
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Loc: Dustopia
To be honest, I haven’t ridden a three fin Bonzer in a very long time. The five feels so good to me I have no desire to go back to the three.
I think this board will do everything a fish does and a whole lot more. At least for me. Time will tell. I have yet to ride it backside and I haven’t ridden it in anything past about 5 feet so far, but I have ridden Bonzer5s with a whole lot wider tail in double overhead waves with no problem.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
Quote: To be honest, I haven’t ridden a three fin Bonzer in a very long time. The five feels so good to me I have no desire to go back to the three.
I think this board will do everything a fish does and a whole lot more. At least for me. Time will tell. I have yet to ride it backside and I haven’t ridden it in anything past about 5 feet so far, but I have ridden Bonzer5s with a whole lot wider tail in double overhead waves with no problem.
sounds good GWS, thanks for taking the time...this board is speaking to me in a big way, ever since seeing the orange mango on surfy, just can't get it outta my head
-------------------- What fin sets work well with this board.
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FishFace
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 08/07/09
Posts: 2904
Loc: Del Mar, CA
just scored this off CL after hitting the jackpot at Harrahs.Had to splurge on something..
5'11" x 21 1/2" x 2 11/16 "davinchi code" inlay on the deck looks badass. This board is super fine! I can't wait to give it a go... Anyone else have one? What fin size are you running? The 'light vehicle' contours on the bottom have me drooling...
Quote: just scored this off CL after hitting the jackpot at Harrahs.Had to splurge on something..
5'11" x 21 1/2" x 2 11/16 "davinchi code" inlay on the deck looks badass. This board is super fine! I can't wait to give it a go... Anyone else have one? What fin size are you running? The 'light vehicle' contours on the bottom have me drooling...
Was very tempted by that myself. Looks fun!
-------------------- "Surfing reminds us of how good life is."
Oceansliding
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rowjimmytour
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 02/06/09
Posts: 2444
Loc: GOLETATHEGOODLAND
Quote: just scored this off CL after hitting the jackpot at Harrahs.Had to splurge on something..
5'11" x 21 1/2" x 2 11/16 "davinchi code" inlay on the deck looks badass. This board is super fine! I can't wait to give it a go... Anyone else have one? What fin size are you running? The 'light vehicle' contours on the bottom have me drooling...
Dat board is beautiful $$ will spent
-------------------- Gotta find a woman be good to me
Won't hide my liquor try to serve me tea
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heelnipstr
Billy Hamilton status
Reged: 07/29/09
Posts: 1452
Loc: Southern Tip, Norcal
5 3/4 (1/4" overlap w/ the trailing runner) messing around and tried it at 5 1/2 and started catching the front rail going backside. think TA said the bamboo was a trial run, hope they make them again, have a 6.5 in my step-up that I am very happy with as well. they have a nice balance of snap but with good stiffness.
-------------------- "Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
- Tom Robbins
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Kingston
Legend (inyourownmind)
Reged: 08/11/11
Posts: 203
Loc: South Bay
Quote: just scored this off CL after hitting the jackpot at Harrahs.Had to splurge on something..
5'11" x 21 1/2" x 2 11/16 "davinchi code" inlay on the deck looks badass. This board is super fine! I can't wait to give it a go... Anyone else have one? What fin size are you running? The 'light vehicle' contours on the bottom have me drooling...
Do you still like this board? Was thinking of getting a Bonzer light vehicle 5 fin.
Quote: just scored this off CL after hitting the jackpot at Harrahs.Had to splurge on something..
5'11" x 21 1/2" x 2 11/16 "davinchi code" inlay on the deck looks badass. This board is super fine! I can't wait to give it a go... Anyone else have one? What fin size are you running? The 'light vehicle' contours on the bottom have me drooling...
Do you still like this board? Was thinking of getting a Bonzer light vehicle 5 fin.
Yes i still have it and still love it... I think its a keeper... unfortunately i just moved and the board is in storage...
--------------------
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GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32188
Loc: Dustopia
I think I would get the same size as the stock 5-8 LazyBoy I ordered. These are supposed to be short, fat and wide according to the comments in the beginning of the thread
-------------------- The only two things in life that make it worth livin is guitars tuned good and firm feelin women
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Kingston
Legend (inyourownmind)
Reged: 08/11/11
Posts: 203
Loc: South Bay
For now, it's just an outline drawn on a blank with a string of rocker numbers for me to hit. This is something he's hand shaped a few of. Think MBLV with a much wider tail.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
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FishFace
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 08/07/09
Posts: 2904
Loc: Del Mar, CA
pretty versatile board up to head high. I don't think of it a real groveler. backside frontside just as good. comfortable in the pocket and an open-face.
-------------------- "Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
- Tom Robbins
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FishFace
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 08/07/09
Posts: 2904
Loc: Del Mar, CA
Have you been riding it the last couple of days in these mini conditions?
Quote: pretty versatile board up to head high. I don't think of it a real groveler. backside frontside just as good. comfortable in the pocket and an open-face.
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heelnipstr
Billy Hamilton status
Reged: 07/29/09
Posts: 1452
Loc: Southern Tip, Norcal
Quote: Have you been riding it the last couple of days in these mini conditions?
Quote: pretty versatile board up to head high. I don't think of it a real groveler. backside frontside just as good. comfortable in the pocket and an open-face.
last few times I went out, couple days ago before the surf got tiny, the board was super fun. It would work for today and yesterdays set waves but I would rather just ride my Hull. As Roy would say, 'Less fuss'.
If you want to try it I am usually off of Judah. You have a mini merk? Would like to try that look for the old donkey on this
-------------------- "Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
- Tom Robbins
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Kingston
Legend (inyourownmind)
Reged: 08/11/11
Posts: 203
Loc: South Bay
A sizing question: Are these super buoyant? GWS, yours was 40 odd liters IIRC; Sounds like too much, or just right?
I'm 6'1 x 175, and living in NZ there's not many to choose from - basically what's available in OZ. Would I be hopelessly overvolumed on a 5'10" x 21 1/2" x 2 3/4?
Heelnipstr, how big are you? That 5'8 of yours is a beaut!
Thanks for your help, gentlemen.
Post Extras:
heelnipstr
Billy Hamilton status
Reged: 07/29/09
Posts: 1452
Loc: Southern Tip, Norcal
Quote: A sizing question: Are these super buoyant? GWS, yours was 40 odd liters IIRC; Sounds like too much, or just right?
I'm 6'1 x 175, and living in NZ there's not many to choose from - basically what's available in OZ. Would I be hopelessly overvolumed on a 5'10" x 21 1/2" x 2 3/4?
Heelnipstr, how big are you? That 5'8 of yours is a beaut!
Thanks for your help, gentlemen.
5'8 20 3/4 2 5/8 not boxy rails but semi full I originally thought the next one I ordered would be shorter 5'6 and a little thinner. I am not so sure now. I am 6'1 180ish plus wearing a lot of rubber.
I would say the #s you listed are too much foam if you want to surf it aggressively.
-------------------- "Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
- Tom Robbins
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TRI FINS ARE DANGEROUS
Tom Curren status
Reged: 01/10/02
Posts: 12997
Loc: Pavement, CA USA
i am not so stoked on the whole trip on thsi board...but dear lord this shot makes me want to call moonlight right now......that shot makes it look like a damn friggin fun surfboard
-------------------- Jesus was Mexican, Ronald Reagan was the devil, and the government is lying about 9-11.
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GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32188
Loc: Dustopia
could you post the volumes for these boards including the new 6' light vehicle on your site?
want to figure out what size to get relative to my other boards.
Blue: 5'6" x 21" x 2 9/16" Gold: 5'8" x 21 1/8" x 2 9/16" Green: 5'10" x 21 1/4" x 2 5/8" Tan: 6'0" x 21 3/8" x 2 5/8"
17" noses x 16" tails
The volume goes to 11 (Spinal tap misquote) Boards look awesome, cant wait to try one. I have a 6'0 at moonlight getting glassed soon and waiting to be joined by its big bro a 6'6 ewing egg to come down from oxnard. I got tired of my all my craigslist/swap meet small-med wave boards, sold a bunch, and pulled the (double barrel) trigger on a 2 board custom order from malcolm...stoked!
The "Chub" is the bonzer hull? Tail on the one in the pic above is super bladed out compared to the mlv. The dims are like 5'11x 23.5 or 24 wide x 2-7/8 thick. How big is the one you cutting GWS?
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GWS
Duke status
Reged: 01/11/02
Posts: 32188
Loc: Dustopia
Quote: The "Chub" is the bonzer hull? Tail on the one in the pic above is super bladed out compared to the mlv. The dims are like 5'11x 23.5 or 24 wide x 2-7/8 thick. How big is the one you cutting GWS?
The outline of the one I am working on is similar to the boards pictured, but it is not a hull. It has the same bottom configuration as the MBLV. I don't know if he intends to put that kind of a tail block on the board or not. I kind of doubt it. The one I just readied was a 5'5" X 21 1/2 X 2 5/8 I believe. I don't know if that will be the dimensions of the first cut or not.
-------------------- Only a fool trips over what’s behind them
Post Extras:
20W-50 and blood
Duke status
Reged: 02/04/04
Posts: 16769
Loc: SOCAL
could you post the volumes for these boards including the new 6' light vehicle on your site?
want to figure out what size to get relative to my other boards.
Blue: 5'6" x 21" x 2 9/16" Gold: 5'8" x 21 1/8" x 2 9/16" Green: 5'10" x 21 1/4" x 2 5/8" Tan: 6'0" x 21 3/8" x 2 5/8"
17" noses x 16" tails
The volume goes to 11 (Spinal tap misquote) Boards look awesome, cant wait to try one. I have a 6'0 at moonlight getting glassed soon and waiting to be joined by its big bro a 6'6 ewing egg to come down from oxnard. I got tired of my all my craigslist/swap meet small-med wave boards, sold a bunch, and pulled the (double barrel) trigger on a 2 board custom order from malcolm...stoked!
I have a 6'10 ewing egg too.
I hope the mini bonzer light vehicle doesn't overlap with the couch potato I have on order.
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Just got back from a 2 night three day camp trip up North and all I packed was 5 fin bonzers. First day I surfed my rp 5'6" bumblebee w/ sets OH+ and it handled like a race car but the rip getting out was a bitch. I really wanted to try the semi gun I scored at the end of last winter from Motosurf so I brought my 7'1" out for afternoon low tide session w/ swell building 
