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i had a carveboard "surfstik" - the one with skateboard wheels. They are great for hills and parking garages - if you live around em.. I live by the beach and its flat for the most part. I sold mine within a month and stuck to my sector 9 longboard.
The worst thing you will find about the carveboard is that it doesnt have a kicktail. You need to kickturn on a skate. Thats the main reason I got rid of it.
the carveboard is great and fun only when theres smooth long downhill roads. The thing is very heavy so its a pain to carry, the carvestik is much lighter and just as fun.
G'day Havoc, I'm a weekend surfer. Although I am able to devote my entire weekends to surfing, I still look for some mid-week training. There is a surf balance/training thread on Swaylocks that might interest you http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/better-surfing-balance
There are some pictures of me with my skateboards there. This is the way I see the skateboard situation: although I haven't used a carveboard I really can't see it as a practical machine to scoot along the flat. I did own a carvestik and I think this is more practical if you say want to practice flat ground pumping which I think is as close as it gets to rail to railing a surfboard. However I absolutely agree with Fishface - the lack of a kicktail is a severe limitation as its nice to mix up pumping (all wheels on the ground) with some tick-tacking (swinging the front around) when the terrain requires it. Also tail manuals (wheelies) and carving tail manuals are fun and add some challenge (everything is difficult to start with but pumping is easy once learned, however doing long manuals remains a good test of my balance).
The only skate implement that ever got me truly stoked was the popsicle/lollipop shaped skateboard ie the modern standard for street and park. The whole point of this implement is to develop and obsession with learning tricks and this guarantees pain and injury! even the young guys hurt themselves and I'm not young. Nevertheless for the few years that I devoted myself to this sport circa 2005 - 2008 I considered the pain worth it. However after a broken collar bone early this year I've decided to give it up.
so for reasonably low risk skating the cruiser type board is what I use nowadays. Longboards look good but I like the shorter Sector 9 sidewinder - get good carving in a shorter package.
On the Swaylocks thread you will see a number of training devices suggested. The problem with things such as the indo board is that I would get quickly bored with them and not use them regularly. However I find it so easy to take my cruiser skateboard out for a spin - I do this 3 to 4 times a week in the mornings before work.
so a cruiser board eg something from the Sector 9 range is my choice.
I got a Sector 9 longboard for the same purpose, but it wasn't cutting it, lack of kick tail, felt more like going rail to rail on a keel fish. Went through my parent's garage (thank you for not throwing it out Dad) and found some of my old decks, took the trucks and wheels and slapped them on an G&S Neil Blender circa 1989. Much better, felt more like going rail to rail on a shortboard, plus I could ollie over stuff again It's kinda funny, a tic-tac seems like doing the Huntinton Hop, but if you push off the tail side to side it would go pretty well. Felt like surfing off the tail on a shortboard.
Unfortunately the G&S was pretty beat and it split up the middle. I now have an ERic Dressen, but the tail is smaller thanks to a few chips off it, still does the job, but ollies are funky. Anyone know where I can find remakes of boards from 1988-1990, we used to ride 66mm wheels back then, so those tails can handle big Sector-9 wheels. Alva, G&S, Powell & Peralta, SMA (Natas preferably)
I prefer Original trucks on any board over the Carveboards/Stiks. You don't need a hill to have fun since you can pump on flatland. The Carver trucks are good too but more front foot driven. With Originals you can drive off either.
Quote: I got a Sector 9 longboard for the same purpose, but it wasn't cutting it, lack of kick tail, felt more like going rail to rail on a keel fish.
Yup, got a Sector 9 carving longboard too, the pintail one. Doesn't have a lot of flex though. Lack of kicktail was a problem--not many hills where I live. Eventually flew off the damn thing because I couldn't slide on those big jelly wheels, had no kicktail, and someone was standing in my way. Result? Sprained ankle and ruined surf trip I was about to leave for the very next day. Learnt a painful lesson--do not skate for surf training. Swim, balance-board, yoga etc, but do not skate.
But what a rush zooming down the hill on that longboard was!
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FishFace
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 08/07/09
Posts: 2943
Loc: Del Mar, CA
Yeah I forgot to mention that the sector 9 I ride has a kicktail. Like these:
Carveboard
So on the carveboard, if you are at a stop and want to turn 90 deg or 180, you literally have to pick up the board and turn it that way. The wheels/tires are sticky and the board is heavy so you cant really kick it... Gets annoying...
I have a Carveboard, and it's fun enough. If you can't surf, it's decent. Paved hills are a requirement...
Vert/pool + Carveboard imho is the best combo. If you're old like me, just make sure you've got protective gear, because you don't bounce up as easy any more.
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tedfred
Legend (inyourownmind)
Reged: 10/06/09
Posts: 339
Loc: East La Jolla
Quote: Anyone using one for training purposes? Seems like a good way to keep the muscles in shape during off days
Also, has anyone subscribed to or used the training on surfcoach.com? Seems like a pretty good resource although a bit $$
Havoc
Where do you live, Havoc? If you're in San Diego give me a holler. Me and a couple of my buddies Carve regularly on Saturday nights @9:30 - 10 pm. We all ride Carveboards but occasionally bust out a Stik or a Sector. I try to get Kento to go but we skate too far from him, I think. Tiny Universe usually comes out with us although his early Sunday morning father/son surf commitments take priority and we generally stay out until midnight. One night we did 18 runs!
...when the surf is flat, Carve!
-------------------- Go Biodiesel! 100% Recycled and USA Made!
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000
Tom Curren status
Reged: 02/20/03
Posts: 14878
Quote: .. Yup, got a Sector 9 carving longboard too, the pintail one. Doesn't have a lot of flex though. Lack of kicktail was a problem--not many hills where I live. Eventually flew off the damn thing because I couldn't slide on those big jelly wheels, had no kicktail, and someone was standing in my way. Result? Sprained ankle and ruined surf trip I was about to leave for the very next day. Learnt a painful lesson--do not skate for surf training. Swim, balance-board, yoga etc, but do not skate.
But what a rush zooming down the hill on that longboard was!
mediashark, thats a good warning. Even though there is no comparison between the injury risk of cruiser skateboard and popsicle trick skateboard, the cruiser is still very hazardous if you haven't skated/skated for a long time. If someone wants to go down that path then my suggestion is to avoid using the kicktail for at least the first few sessions and spend a fair bit of time practising jumping off/bailing.
Quote: every surfer should get 1 and practice 7 hours a day for 7 years before attempting to surf again
000, I do take your point. How many of us have the time, inclination and energy to do surf specific balance and additional training on top of surfing. I get the impression that a lot of you live near the beach, all of California is consistent isn't it? I only know Santa Cruz and San Francisco region. On weekends all I want to do is surf - thankfully its very consistent. If I lived closer I wouldn't need to mid week swim for paddling fitness and I'd be on the skateboard a lot less if at all.
Havoc, I'm not wishing to discourage you from surf training, everyone has different goals/situations. But weekend surfing, a bit of skating and one mid-week swim is enough for me.
My double king-pin cruiser below. Good truck geometry for carving. Shorter length than longboard for effective use of the kicktail.
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SharkBoy
Michael Peterson status
Reged: 10/22/04
Posts: 2581
Quote: just regular skateboarding, especially in bowls is better IMO
...
it is a better test of balance, more stoking yes. But thats when the pain and injuries start. It depends what you want to do most - surf or skate. To really focus on skateboarding in skateparks I found it easier to not surf at all and thats all I did 2005 - 2007. There is also the question of how good can an older guy get (I'm 48)
the vid of Cardiel you posted has him doing rails, to learn rails for the first time over say 30 I consider to be unrealistic. Even pro skater Brandon Biebel doesn't do rails (although I'm sure he could if he really wanted to).
off topic but Cardiel has since had a horror non-skating spinal injury.
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Tiny Universe
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 12/12/03
Posts: 6825
Loc: Carlsbad, CA
Is FishFace a troll? What's up with the kicktail obsession? The thought of picking up a carveboard to turn it 90 degrees is killing me. He needs to join one of our carve sessions and learn how they were intended to be ridden.
I'm selling this board used and in good condition for $75 to any of the boys on the BB. THIS IS A COPIED PIC FROM THE BB. I'M ON VACATION AND HAVEN'T TAKEN PICS. Board is excellent for pumping, carving, and sliding out the tail. As wasn't mentioned this deck has some flex. I've ridden two different decks with this double truck set up (flex and no flex) from Sector 9 and this one wins out hands down. It keeps your feet just over the trucks allowing for more control and has a more "real" feel. Extra fun if you could get it on an empty basketball court. It got me through school when I couldn't get out in the water. Life has been a bit more water accessible so I just don't get to take advantage of her as much. Hate to see her sit there. First $75 takes her. I'm located around San Mateo. I can provide pictures next weekend or so since I'm out of town. pm or best to email freaknut101@yahoo.com
Quote: just regular skateboarding, especially in bowls is better IMO
...
it is a better test of balance, more stoking yes. But thats when the pain and injuries start. It depends what you want to do most - surf or skate. To really focus on skateboarding in skateparks I found it easier to not surf at all and thats all I did 2005 - 2007. There is also the question of how good can an older guy get (I'm 48)
the vid of Cardiel you posted has him doing rails, to learn rails for the first time over say 30 I consider to be unrealistic. Even pro skater Brandon Biebel doesn't do rails (although I'm sure he could if he really wanted to).
off topic but Cardiel has since had a horror non-skating spinal injury.
I agree, esp with rails and any street skating really, esp if you didn't grow up doing that and are old already. However, bowls are great and if you have any experience riding transitions at all, it won't take you long to figure out pumping and carving a bowl. That's enough to have fun and you can't get jacked up too bad doing that. If you've never dropped in, some bowls have roll-ins to make it that much easier.
Quote: Is FishFace a troll? What's up with the kicktail obsession? The thought of picking up a carveboard to turn it 90 degrees is killing me. He needs to join one of our carve sessions and learn how they were intended to be ridden.
No troll. I had a carveboard. Sold it and got a sector 9. I guess I'm a back footed skater. I will happily join in a carveboard sesson. PM me.
I have a carveboard surf STIK that I've had for a long time. It pumps pretty well and generates speed, but there are a few things I don't like about it. 1. It's heavy and big. It's hard to transport if you need to strap it to a backpack or something. 2. You CANNOT easily upgrade the wheels or bearings because it uses axles that are meant for bigger bearings (I think they are the size used on mountain boards), so all the high end skate bearings (bones swiss etc.) and skateboard wheels that are so abundant will NOT work on the Carveboard. This is a problem because the bearings it comes stock with aren't that fast.
I rode a longboard from a company called Original Longboards recently (The Derringer 28) and it was amazing. Pumps way faster, smoother than my Carveboard, and the unique trucks they use can actually turn in a tighter radius than the Carveboard. Feels a lot more like surfing. check them out: Original Longboards
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hallucinogenic_toreador
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 5957
Loc: socal beachbreak barrels
i've been downhill carving since the mid 90's, and have ridden just about every kind of downhill and flatland carver out there, including all the carveboard and carve stiks, all types of sector 9's, and others.
by far, my favorite is the 47" gravity hyper carve with 129 indys. it may seem counter-intuitive at first, but going narrower with the trucks allows for faster speeds without generating speed wobbles, also allows you to put it more "on rail" with more leverage and control over inside wheels. you can dig harder, control grip and release for slides better. the narrower trucks really allow you to dig on your toeside turns, whereas wider trucks will spin out easier.
the 34" wheelbase allows you to stand in a stance that approximates your natural surf stance, while still having some space between your feet and the trucks, giving nice flex response.
on a good hill with the right surface, you can throw repeated frontside bottom turn/top turn combos with a lot of variety...powersliding slashes or keep the wheels locked on rail all the way through the turn until your heading back uphill for a roundhouse carve.
body mechanics are almost identical.
the more "s" turning type of carve stiks and other similar, shorter designs don't allow for a full stance, and are too loose to really approximate real, hard carving mechanics that translate to the surf.
now i'm fired up. think i'll go for a downhill run!
-------------------- "...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
Living in a city environment without many hills I bailed on my Gravity a long time ago and picket up a short Sector 9 City Crusher. Small enough to weave in and out of pedestrians but flexible enough to give a surf like carve and has a small kicktail for getting up curbs.
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Havoc
Tom Curren status
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 10000
Loc: The OC Life
Damn great thread!! There's tons of parks w/ some hills down here in OC. I'll have to get one and get out there! Seems like a great way to train and mimic the surfing movements. I saw some people on the surfcoach video doing like cutbacks and arm movements, and at first looked retarded, but then really clicked.
:heers: Havoc
PS. Man, I wish I could join all you San Diego guys for a run, sounds like you all have a blast!!
-------------------- "motions of rippage is initated by the hind leg"-Northern_Shores
"Lemme know. I got endson gas"-20W
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tedfred
Legend (inyourownmind)
Reged: 10/06/09
Posts: 339
Loc: East La Jolla
Quote: Man, I wish I could join all you San Diego guys for a run, sounds like you all have a blast!!
This Saturday, 10 pm. I'll PM anyone interested with the details. We hit this one hill it's perfect for Carveboarding and downhill skating - great for learning or shredding, not too steep, super wide with gigantic sloped driveways.
You should go just to see my bro Jared rip it on his Carveboard. He has these hockey puck slider gloves that let him do four point toe-side slides by putting both hands down off weighting his feet. He perfected it about a month ago. I call it Nascar drifting. All four wheels have big inflated tires and they slide a foot or so when he does the Nascar drift turn. Super sick!
I just bought a new Gold Coast Floater longboard off Whiskey Militia for $65 I want to try out as well. Let's go Sk8!
:Shred: :Heads: :Shred:
-------------------- Go Biodiesel! 100% Recycled and USA Made!
Quote: just regular skateboarding, especially in bowls is better IMO
...
it is a better test of balance, more stoking yes. But thats when the pain and injuries start. It depends what you want to do most - surf or skate. To really focus on skateboarding in skateparks I found it easier to not surf at all and thats all I did 2005 - 2007. There is also the question of how good can an older guy get (I'm 48)
the vid of Cardiel you posted has him doing rails, to learn rails for the first time over say 30 I consider to be unrealistic. Even pro skater Brandon Biebel doesn't do rails (although I'm sure he could if he really wanted to).
off topic but Cardiel has since had a horror non-skating spinal injury.
I agree, esp with rails and any street skating really, esp if you didn't grow up doing that and are old already. However, bowls are great and if you have any experience riding transitions at all, it won't take you long to figure out pumping and carving a bowl. That's enough to have fun and you can't get jacked up too bad doing that. If you've never dropped in, some bowls have roll-ins to make it that much easier.
9ten, yes forget "street" in general. Stairs are out of the question of course and although the basic flatland ollie (the basis of street) is not dangerous in my opinion (I never hurt myself trying) its very unrewarding for the older guy and I did put in a huge effort attempting to learn it, but just never got very far. In comparison I made much more reasonable progress on mini-sized transition I also noted that this seemed to be the case with other older skaters. However I respectfully disagree with you that rolling around in a bowl is safe for the novice older guy. For you it might be trivial but wipeouts (called "slams" in skate terminology are inevitable), the concrete will HURT.
There is then the question of how best to avoid slamming ie the "bail" or controlled abandon. I got on best with the knee slide due to a small exposure to vert in my mid-twenties but the young guys all seem to "run out". So things are not trivial for the older guy in transition.
my posts so far were aimed at someone who didn't want to take on another extreme sport to break the body, but rather a bit of alternative balance training for the committed surfer. However Havoc has just indicated an interest in parks and I didn't know that at time of posting.
I suppose my response to Sharkboy's suggestion to carve bowls was the the example vid of Cardiel shredding the coping - he is smith grinding, 5-0 grinding, tail sliding and ollieing straight over pyramids. These things are just unrealistically difficult to ever attain by someone who hasn't say got a good solid skateboard foundation laid down in their teenage years. The reality is going to be a lot more tame.
Quote: Damn great thread!! There's tons of parks w/ some hills down here in OC. I'll have to get one and get out there! Seems like a great way to train and mimic the surfing movements. ....
Havoc, you have just expressed an interest in both skateparks and downhill (and maybe gentle slopes/flatland carving?) so I would like to point out that the instruments for these disciplines are very different, notably the skatepark demands the popsicle/lollipop trick board. The trick board makes a very poor carving board due to tiny wheels and truck geometry that will rub the deck if set loose. I first entered a skatepark on my sector9 sidewinder, yes it would roll around but I could see that the fragile composite deck was quickly going to get wrecked and it was cumbersome. I asked the advice of an older guy who knew what he was doing and was told the regular popsicle is best for the park, its also the cheapest and most skateshops do a "shop package" which will be cheaper than assembling chosen components. Can go a tad wider than young street skater who need to flip, but no need for big pool decks - there is no stability advantage for mini-sized transition - I found he was correct for what I was capable of doing.
I said it all in my first post on this thread and also the swaylocks thread http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/better-surfing-balance but I do emphasise that you will get hurt in the skateparks. I considered the pain worth it but after 2 months out of the water last year and I'll be 49 in a few months I consider my decision to give up the trick board last year reasonable. I get the impression that you are an older guy (but nowhere near as old as me!) so I think by far the best forums for skatepark advice for the older guy is "Old Man Army" and "Middle Aged Shred" - google them, the former US centric, the latter British based but they are happy to have anyone post.
You will get heaps of good info there but some starting points for mature skatepark enjoyment is to firstly swallow all pride and be very modest with what is achievable. Early mornings can be best for getting in maximum low pressure practise too, the young guys can't be bothered to get up so the older crew will be there then. Except for some rare occassions I only did Sunnyvale skatepark california in the mornings. Same more recently in the city skatepark Melbourne Australia although I used to do Campbell California at peak time as it was my local and very close. Its just a congestion thing rather than vibe. Skateparks are incredibly friendly compared to prime surfspots and I only ever got good vibes and lots of helpful advice. I don't think its a good sport for occassional enjoyment, a lot of precision is needed to get the axles on the coping - there is no room for sloppy technique like what we can get away with surfing and it will require very regular practise.
if you want to surf, ride skateparks AND downhill as well then you will be asking a lot from yourself, maybe just choose a couple.
You can totally take a mini longboard to the skatepark. They're really fun in big concrete bowls. You can pump through the flats and surf the banks all day long. Just like on a wave. You can even take a carveboard in there:
saw an older guy killing it on a normal looking sector 9 the other day at the santa barbara park ... pumping it like crazy through the flats, little air outs, it was pretty cool to see. I had been wondering if this was possible as well -- for this guy, definitely.
yea i agree i dont think u can get much better then a bowl just pretend its a macking lip take that board and hit it hard with a ton of speed and slide across the rail....
Quote: You can totally take a mini longboard to the skatepark. They're really fun in big concrete bowls. You can pump through the flats and surf the banks all day long. Just like on a wave. You can even take a carveboard in there:
...
Cross, I take your point that it is possible. We all want to do different things. I think H_T's choice of longboard for downhill, nightfly's choice of the short city cruiser for pavement/sidewalk use and FishFace's choice of longboard all reasonable for what they want to do.
However a carving board was not my choice in the parks - one of the reasons why I stopped the skateparks last year was that I was never happy to just roll around. I wanted to do lip tricks which are risky.
Would you agree that the carvestik (I think I recognise the trucks in your pic) is not suitable for lip tricks in parks? Not even a basic kickturn possible on the carvestik. A pic of me repairing my old carvestik below - I broke at least 2 springs from metal fatigue (as you know it doesn't have normal bushings/rubbers), but I was so much happier with the sector 9 sidewinder on the road and in the skatepark the trick board was what I used. I never saw anyone in the skateparks on a longboard/carving board.
Pic of me rocking on the coping with a "fakie disaster" in Sunnyvale california on a popsicle shaped trick board (what do you call these types of boards?)
there are no rules to bowl riding, what to ride, what you have to do in the bowl. you can just carve around and be happy whether on a popsicle, old school board, longboard, stik, etc. sure, if you wanna do tricks you'll have the appropriate board but my guess is that most people don't wanna break themselves and miss out on surfing.
No I definitely agree with you that the Stik is not a good board for doing off the lip, coping tricks, but it'd definitely be fun to pump and ride the banks like a wave.
I still have my carveboard stik and it's in pretty good condition, but I do want to sell it and get something better.
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hallucinogenic_toreador
Phil Edwards status
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 5957
Loc: socal beachbreak barrels
one thing that was hard for me to get used to with the carve stik was the deck suspended between the trucks (more or less), causing me to constantly run over my foot initially.
they are a ton of fun...at the time i rode the carve board and carve stik, i wished for a carve stick with a much longer wheel base. i hate those tires on the carve board, like the faster skateboard type wheels a lot better.
i used to be an avid bowl and half-pipe skater, street skater, and i truly think that you get the best cross training from long downhill carving on flat decked boards with narrow trucks, and wheel bases that allow you to stand in the same stance as you do on a shortboard.
force yourself into surfing body mechanics, get the leg burn, do high speed frontside carves into powerslides (absolutely identical to ripping off the top into a tailslide/tail release or open face carve), high speed toeside carves on the brink of sliding (basically the same as frontside bottom turns or backside carves across the top), and then run back up for the fitness and leg benefits.
it absolutely translates. half-pipes and pools are super fun, and the stuff along and above the coping is very similar to vert surfing at a place like 4' lowers, but it doesn't translate as well to the entire wave, just lip and air stuff.
-------------------- "...we woke up to perfect lefts, and that was our mission."
I got a carveboard surf stik maybe a year or so after I'd started surfing, and it exponentially increased my abilities in the water. Living in an area where the surf isn't that consistent, it was such a plus having the board to practice pumping and carving on the street when the waves were flat.
Quote: No I definitely agree with you that the Stik is not a good board for doing off the lip, coping tricks, but it'd definitely be fun to pump and ride the banks like a wave.
I still have my carveboard stik and it's in pretty good condition, but I do want to sell it and get something better.
you gave a good technical explanation of the Carvestik and its limitations in your previous post on this thread. Your pictures do illustrate that it is possible to carve up mellow transition on the cruiser type board and it looks like fun.
The carvestik will indeed carve very nicely although it seems a lot of us agree that there is better and you liked the Derringer you tried. This is a good thread as a number of posters have tried different implements and showed how there is more than one way of having fun on skateboards.
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It's kinda funny, a tic-tac seems like doing the Huntinton Hop, but if you push off the tail side to side it would go pretty well. Felt like surfing off the tail on a shortboard.
The thought of picking up a carveboard to turn it 90 degrees is killing me. He needs to join one of our carve sessions and learn how they were intended to be ridden.
He has these hockey puck slider gloves that let him do four point toe-side slides by putting both hands down off weighting his feet. He perfected it about a month ago. I call it Nascar drifting. All four wheels have big inflated tires and they slide a foot or so when he does the Nascar drift turn. Super sick!
