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The whole "who killed more people" argument is ridiculous from beginning to end. Stalin and Mao didn't kill people because of atheism, Hitler didn't kill people because of whatever-his-religion-was, the Crusaders didn't kill people because of Christianity, Muhammed didn't kill people because of Islam, the conquest of the Americas (and Hawaii) had nothing to do with religious beliefs.

Man goes into the war business for economic reasons. Simple as that. You can't build an us-vs-them theme without some way of distinguishing between the two sides. As a result, each side will have to find some form of tribalism to serve as that distinguishing factor.

History has shown that exactly what form of self-identity is used to serve as the basis for that tribalism makes no difference to the lengths these groups will go in order to take what they think they deserve or protect what they've got. Their only limitations are their means to wage their conquests and their ability to retain what they take.

If you're judging these various groups by what they do none of them seem to act with any more morality than the others. The Hawaiians and the Native Americans waged their fair share of genocide to the extent they were capable of doing so. Ditto for the indigenous peoples all around the world that were later colonized by the more modern civilizations. They all conquered weaker tribes or lesser species that preceded them.

If the militant atheists were sufficient in number to push their constructive intolerance into the realm of the final solution they'd sure as hell do it if that's what it took for them to get what they wanted.

If you're labeling yourself then you are part of a group whether you have the personal integrity to admit it or not. There's nothing wrong with being part of a group - what's wrong is giving that group the authority to dictate your actions contrary to how you would otherwise have chosen to act.

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You had me until the "crusaders didn't kill people because christianity"

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You can read just about any period historian and they will tell you the same thing.

Look it up.

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The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns, waged by much of Roman Catholic Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly by Roman Catholic forces (taking place after the East–West Schism and mostly before the Protestant Reformation) against Muslims who had occupied the near east since the time of the Rashidun Caliphate, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the various popes.[1] Orthodox Christians also took part in fighting against Islamic forces in some Crusades. Crusaders took vows and were granted a plenary indulgence.[1][2]
The Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Muslim rule and their campaigns were launched in response to a call from the Christian Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuk Turks into Anatolia. The term is also used to describe contemporaneous and subsequent campaigns conducted through to the 16th century in territories outside the Levant[3] usually against pagans, heretics, and peoples under the ban of excommunication[4] for a mixture of religious, economic, and political reasons.[5] Rivalries among both Christian and Muslim powers led also to alliances between religious factions against their opponents, such as the Christian alliance with the Sultanate of Rûm during the Fifth Crusade.
The Crusades had far-reaching political, economic, and social impacts, some of which have lasted into contemporary times. Because of internal conflicts among Christian kingdoms and political powers, some of the crusade expeditions were diverted from their original aim, such as the Fourth Crusade, which resulted in the sack of Christian Constantinople and the partition of the Byzantine Empire between Venice and the Crusaders. The Sixth Crusade was the first crusade to set sail without the official blessing of the Pope.[6] The Seventh, Eighth and Ninth Crusades resulted in Mamluk and Hafsid victories, as the Ninth Crusade marked the end of the Crusades in the Middle East.[7]

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"[Rush] doesn't influence me either - merely reinforces what I already know" - 23rdstMB

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