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I can't respond to everything here, but a few points.

First, I said that the answer to "why?" need not be God. There is no direct path here to proof for God's existence or nonexistence.

Sorry, but it sure seems that that is your conclusion. My point is that the answer to why is unknown. Simple as that. Chances are that we'll never know.

Second, you mention that I don't like the conclusions that naturalism provides and that is why I think its method is misguided. But you haven't engaged the argument. I gave an argument as to why it is that experience, or that which arises within consciousness, cannot be reduced to physical phenomena. You would have to tell me why this is not the case.

It's your opinion that consciousness cannot be reduced to physical phenomena. Many would argue that it can be and that it's just a function of the brain. Answer, this: If the brain is severed from the body, and the body is kept alive, is it conscious? If not, then consciousness must lie within the brain. Can one feel love or courage when the brain is severed from the body? No, then love and courage must reside in the brain, not the heart, not the soul. Therefore, there must be some physical process in the brain that creates or is consciousness.


Again, I'm claiming that physical interaction is experienced, is given through consciousness, as are the claims about such physical interaction. To assert, therefore, that such consciousness is an illusion or epiphenomenon brought about by physical interaction is to put the cart before the horse. It is to explain the prior (conscious experience) by the latter (physical phenomena). Since physical explanation arises in and for consciousness one cannot explain consciousness via physical phenomena. This is the argument that you must debunk.

Why must I debunk this statement? I didn't prepose that consciousness was the result of physical phenomena. Clearly physical phenomena exists without someone be conscious of it. Happens every time you sleep. This doesn't mean that consciousness isn't a physical phenomena within the brain. See above.

Third, and this is in response to your next post, I'm not ascribing to a Christian theory about fallen man, but responding to a condition I find in my own life. The point is not that man (in general) is evil, but that God has offered a better more flourishing life to me, and to each of us.

The fact that you ended that statement with "to each of us" does indeed prove that you ascribe to the fallen man theory. If you had stopped with just you, you might have been able to deny belief in that theory, but you've just applied it to the entirity of mankind. Well there's a boatload of Hindu and Buddhists that don't subscribed to that theory, but you just decided that their views were incorrect, and that my view is incorrect.

I'm fine with the fact that you have decided that belief in a god (or in god) is the best way for you to come to terms with how the universe works and finiteness of your life (which the latter is really what religion is all about), but to argue that your opinion is the correct one and that others must refute is the same as those that wish to argue that the earth is 6,000 years old.

And this is for Stu and the others, those that believe in a god generally do not understand that aethiests/agnostics typically do not care that you believe in a god, they are generally okay with your right to do so. What they do care about is when those of religious faith try to dictate the rules, laws, and policies of society on the basis of that faith. I've never met an aetheist that wouldn't say that their ideas about the universe could be wrong, but I've met plenty of the faithful that won't say that.

*Again, it is important to note that the above arguments (except for point 3) stand on their own merit and do not depend upon my own Christian beliefs for their veracity.

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Here's something you might find interesting:
How to define Consciousness or How Not to. <----link

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"It makes the Mach 5 look like a vagina!" - S.Archer

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